Has there ALWAYS been a true church?

[Esaias]

Prax are you saying "church" does NOT mean a local body of believers?

Also, are you saying God had churches that didn't know and never knew that Christ is the incarnation of the Father and that baptism is to be done in his name by immersion and that receiving the Spirit is normatively accompanied by glossalalia? If so... then what makes a church a church?

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

As to if there has always been the "Apostolic doctrine" as currently is taught today, I would say no. But a true church - the Lord knows those who are His, and I believe hearts who reach out to the Lord in faith, perhaps not having all elements of the original apostolic truths, the Lord remains the final judge of that.

And we must consider - what if we don't possess all the elements of the original apostolic doctrine? What of us? That concerns me more than anything else.

I really do not wan to be a Grinch, but the truth is that we don't possess all the elements of the original apostolic doctrine, however as times goes forward and we research more the Bible and the ancient texts, we are bound to get closer to that original apostolic doctrine.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Prax are you saying "church" does NOT mean a local body of believers?

Also, are you saying God had churches that didn't know and never knew that Christ is the incarnation of the Father and that baptism is to be done in his name by immersion and that receiving the Spirit is normatively accompanied by glossalalia? If so... then what makes a church a church?

A local body of believers is a part of the body of Christ.

There is one Church and those local bodies of believers are a part of that One Church

I believe that all the church people who argue and label other members "not saved" might be surprised to find them in the same place together when they die or the Rapture happens

The basis of church is faith, faith in what Christ did on the cross which leads us to repent and obey.

I also don't believe it can ever be proven that there has been an unbroken chain of Oneness Pentecostals from 33 AD till now. Ive never seen any evidence of an unbroken chain

I don't believe one is necessary either. Having said that it is possible there could have been a handful of people somewhere on planet earth that believed A.B and C but if they did they were either silent about their faith or quickly killed for heresy

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I really do not wan to be a Grinch, but the truth is that we don't possess all the elements of the original apostolic doctrine, however as times goes forward and we research more the Bible and the ancient texts, we are bound to get closer to that original apostolic doctrine.

I don't think we could say NO ONE has all the truth. My thinking is that those who DO would be called a "cult" by the modern Church.

Jesus said if one has the Holy Spirit he will guide them into ALL TRUTH. So even tho there may not be orgs that have the full truth I think there certainly are individuals and small groups or even large groups that do.

After all there are millions of spirit baptized Christians in the world and you and I have never met or heard of most of them.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

A local body of believers is a part of the body of Christ.

There is one Church and those local bodies of believers are a part of that One Church

I believe that all the church people who argue and label other members "not saved" might be surprised to find them in the same place together when they die or the Rapture happens

The basis of church is faith, faith in what Christ did on the cross which leads us to repent and obey.

I also don't believe it can ever be proven that there has been an unbroken chain of Oneness Pentecostals from 33 AD till now. Ive never seen any evidence of an unbroken chain

I don't believe one is necessary either. Having said that it is possible there could have been a handful of people somewhere on planet earth that believed A.B and C but if they did they were either silent about their faith or quickly killed for heresy

On the other hand has there always been an unbroken chain of "faith only" Churches? That did not require water baptism or the Holy Spirit? That required NOTHING except a confession of faith? That would be very hard to find historically.

[Michael The Disciple]

A Church that I believe has the original Apostolic foundation.

Carlisle Christian Fellowship. Carlisle Pa

http://www.weareccf.org/

They have a plurality of Elders. The founding Elder is Dave Huston. Oddly enough this is a UPC Church.

Here is their other web site:

http://www.gloriouschurch.com/

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

A local body of believers is a part of the body of Christ.

There is one Church and those local bodies of believers are a part of that One Church

I believe that all the church people who argue and label other members "not saved" might be surprised to find them in the same place together when they die or the Rapture happens

The basis of church is faith, faith in what Christ did on the cross which leads us to repent and obey.

I also don't believe it can ever be proven that there has been an unbroken chain of Oneness Pentecostals from 33 AD till now. Ive never seen any evidence of an unbroken chain

I don't believe one is necessary either. Having said that it is possible there could have been a handful of people somewhere on planet earth that believed A.B and C but if they did they were either silent about their faith or quickly killed for heresy

http://www.pbcofdecaturalabama.org/RMason/myth1.htm

Ignore for a moment the author's Baptist bias and consider the argument: Jesus founded a visible local assembly not a universal invisible one.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

On the other hand has there always been an unbroken chain of "faith only" Churches? That did not require water baptism or the Holy Spirit? That required NOTHING except a confession of faith? That would be very hard to find historically.

There hasn't been an unbroken chain of anything. There has been a group such as the Roman Catholic church which has evolved over the years

[houston]

Will the circle be unbroken
by and by, Lord, by and by

[Esaias]

Who can baptise a repentant believer? Can just anyone?

Or must a proper scriptural baptism be performed by one who is authorised by God to do such?

Who has God authorized?