Has there ALWAYS been a true church?

[Aquila]

I believe that God has always had true believers throughout history. Maybe not established as an "institution" as we think of it, but rather believing individuals. I believe many of these were filled with the Spirit and the experience was documented as a "spiritual ecstasy" or "mystical union". Maybe their lips stammered as they silently prayed and wept, not knowing that had they "spoke it out" tongues were present. They may not have been baptized "in Jesus name" seeing that most institutional churches throughout history only baptized using the "Trinitarian formula", but seeking to be obedient, they were baptized. God sees the heart of a seeking soul hungry for Him and the salvation He brings. I believe they were forgiven and saved in spite of the errors or theological misunderstandings they may have held.

We serve a God of mercy and grace.

As more and more people began to seek the Holy Spirit and re-examine the Bible, I believe God revealed greater truth that has brought us this far in restoring the Apostolic character and practice of the church. Personally, I don't believe this restoration is complete. As I press forward in my studies I realize that much of the institutional Apostolic organizations are trapped in time worshiping their doctrines over the Lord Jesus. I also have realized that the manner in which we have church isn't necessarily biblical in so many ways. I've pressed into meeting in homes with humble small gatherings of believers who often wait patiently in silence for the Spirit to move and speak to the group. I've experienced opening the Scriptures in these groups and the Spirit moving and directing the gathering. Humble, quiet, peaceful, spiritual, and full of grace. Meetings wherein the gifts of word of knowledge, word of wisdom, prophesy, tongues, interpretation, and healing have been present. I've discovered elders who see their calling as more of a spiritual ministry, a spiritual fatherhood or mentorship if you will, than an officially licensed office in a religious profession or career. All in a humble living room, dining room, or finished basement.

We have so far to go until we truly realize what it means to be "Spirit led" to the point wherein we allow the Bible to be a tool and guide... but the Spirit to be the actual substance of our lives. I'm humbled beyond measure. I realize that I have experienced what so many generations of Christians prayed for.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

In that the church is the body of CHRIST, and that Christ is the Head of the CHURCH, I find it impossible to say that there was ever a time since Pentecost where there wasn't a church, since the Head and Christ of the church has been alive and well since His resurrection.

After all, Jesus can't be separated from His own Body.

A body-less head?

The Spirit draws people to the Father, and God is able to save to the uttermost all who come to Him through Jesus Christ His Son. I have no doubt there have always been saved people in the world, from "this is that" forward, otherwise, we have periods of time in which Jesus Christ was the Head of NOTHING.

Amen.

“History is written by the victors.” Winston Churchill

There's no surprise to me that the real church isn't mentioned in secular or religious history. THEY are the winners now, but we win in the end.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Amen.

“History is written by the victors.” Winston Churchill

There's no surprise to me that the real church isn't mentioned in secular or religious history. THEY are the winners now, but we win in the end.

Dare I say it? Even within some of our most beloved "Apostolic organizations" there is a "true church" within the carnal and worldly organizations of man.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Dare I say it? Even within some of our most beloved "Apostolic organizations" there is a "true church" within the carnal and worldly organizations of man.

May God have mercy on the Apostolics and on me.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

May God have mercy on the Apostolics and on me.

Amen!

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Dare I say it? Even within some of our most beloved "Apostolic organizations" there is a "true church" within the carnal and worldly organizations of man.

yup

[Abiding Now]

I would really hate to know that the God I served was so weak that generations would go by and he didn't have the power save folks.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

It looks to me more like Evangelicals explain away Acts and redefine John.

Do we need evidence of it outside the Bible? Absolutely not! That's why we are called "Apostolic". Anything OUTSIDE the Bible or speaking different than whats in it is heretical.

And when you use the terms water/spirit in relation to salvation have you never heard of the Catholic Church? That is precisely what they have always believed. Altho they approach it from a wrong perspective (baptizing infants and confirmation ritual) it originally came from Jesus teaching on being born of water and spirit.

The Apostolic foundation is found ONLY among Oneness Pentecostal groups today. I have searched the Bible now on this very matter for the last 36 years on the matter as one starting out from an Evangelical beginning. None of the Evangelical groups are patterned after the Acts and preaching of the Apostles.

It was because I compared the teachings of Evangelical groups like I was part of with that of the Apostles that I came to separate from them. They were false teachers offering salvation a different way.

Now as to the philosophy and traditions that have come up among them much of it no doubt is merely the doctrine of men.

You made all my points.

OPs totally misunderstand the basic message of scripture, thus think they are the only true church and have no witness in history because no one prior to the 20th century had their unique private interpretation.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

You made all my points.

OPs totally misunderstand the basic message of scripture, thus think they are the only true church and have no witness in history because no one prior to the 20th century had their unique private interpretation.

Ok I'll ask this of you. Point out the true Church in history. This should be interesting.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok I'll ask this of you. Point out the true Church in history. This should be interesting.

Mike reread my first post. I don't believe you can point to any org/denom/sect as "the true church". I assert that the true church has always been made up of those born again believers. However from an early on the recognized "church" includes both wheat and tares.

I do believe that historically speaking the catholic (not necessarily Roman Catholic) church is a close as we can get to a "church" during the first three centuries going forward. Certainly as persecution waned and especially after Constantine the church grew more and more worldly. However I believe there were still people saved within the church, in spite of the church. If we lived in centuries 1-15 there were precious few alternatives to the Catholic or Orthodox churches.