Image of the Beast

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

[COLOR="Red"]Revelation (the 7 churches of Asia Minor) chapters 1-3

Chapters 1-3 ?????? Where do you get the authority to say ONLY THE FIRST THREE CHAPTERS OF REVELATION were written to the seven churches? That is NOT STATED IN THE ENTIRE BOOK ANYWHERE!

You once again ADDED to the word. Any butchering so long as we keep our tradition, right?

[mfblume]

In the same CHAPTER 1 that He told John to write to the seven churches, he told him to write about the past, present and future. And HE NEVER INDICATED ANOTHER AUDIENCE WAS DIRECTLY WRITTEN TO FROM THOSE SEVEN CHURCHES when he said that.

This is futurism at its best. Twisting plainly stated scriptures.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That question is moot and inapplicable. If GALATIANS was written TO the Galatians about what THEY would see, for example, we might be part of the same church, right? But time-limited and location-restricted events written to them in their day would not be what we would experience.

Otherwise, this MUST be true for YOU right now!

Gal 3:1 KJV O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

This was written to the Galatians in the same church you are in , right? That MUST MEAN that YOU HAVE BEEN BEWITCHED, and it is not actually restricted to the congregation at Galatia. See how absurd that thought is? That is what you have done with Revelation!


Mike, if you or I try to get the church to move back into keeping the Law of Moses then the curses of Paul towards the heretic Judaizers in Galatia apply to YOU and I. You do understand that, right?

Just because we are in the CHURCH overall spanning centuries does not mean something written distinctly to one of the churches in a certain time period will speak of events that always HAVE TO apply to what we will experience as well.

Not only have you effectively tossed out the time-texts of Rev 1:1; 3 and 22:10, but NOW you effectively remove the audience relevancy to the book.

So you have a BOOK WRITTEN TO the first century group of churches in Asia Minor whom you claim have nothing to do with what John wrote IN THE BULK OF THE BOOK! And despite the fact that WE are in he same overall church as they were, THEY have nothing to do with what the books writes about while WE DO! You effectively turned the book completely upsidedown. It's all about us in our day, and not to ANYONE to whom the book was distinctly addressed to.


It was given to the saints of the day and PASSED DOWN through the generations to us, the "Last Days" saints. They obviously did not see the books' prophecies fulfilled, but we are waiting for the fulfillment of the book of Rev. today.


All of the new testament(EPISTLES) were written to specific folks, but all of the passages are for us also, as long as the Lords' church is still here. INCLUDING, the book of Revelation. The church is awaiting mountains of unfulfilled prophecy that our Lord gave to His ENTIRE church. It is strange that preterists insist that the New Testament commands to "specific" folks must be relevant and followed by us today, but prophetical teachings of Jesus and the Apostles are "fulfilled" or not relevant to the believer.




No, you have shown selectivity more than anyone could possibly do by this post. You conveniently disregarded Rev 1,:1, 3 and Rev 22:10. And now you do the same with rev 1:19.

LOL...you have discarded the ENTIRE first 20 Chapters of Revelation as PAST prophecy...look whos talking.


I noticed you did not respond to my notes about Rev 1:19. Just started accusing and labelling, which is what is done when facing an argument that cannot be answered.

I only gave you my observation of it Mike, you gotta believe me when I say I have been watching you guys and checking things out quietly.


Josephus HAD NOTHING to do with what I see about preterism. NOTHING. Where did you get that from?

Mike, all I ever heard from you guys during our debates is "Josephus said this and that"....cmon bro. you were part of it all.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

In the same CHAPTER 1 that He told John to write to the seven churches, he told him to write about the past, present and future. And HE NEVER INDICATED ANOTHER AUDIENCE WAS DIRECTLY WRITTEN TO FROM THOSE SEVEN CHURCHES when he said that.

This is futurism at its best. Twisting plainly stated scriptures.

Mike, we will not start a new debate. I have a clear handle on preterism now. I think it is....
a masterpiece of scripture twisting that is unmatched by anything I have seen in religion in my 53 years of being religious from birth(catholic).(including 18 years of Catholicism)


Someday, if you keep on the same track, you will be like pastor febus and find more hidden stuff in the Bible that we never knew about.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Mike, all I ever heard from you guys during our debates is "Josephus said this and that"....cmon bro. you were part of it all.

All you ever heard? All I ever gave was biblical arguments. Show me one quote where I said that. Give me post #.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Mike, we will not start a new debate. I have a clear handle on preterism now. I think it is....
a masterpiece of scripture twisting that is unmatched by anything I have seen in religion in my 53 years of being religious from birth(catholic).(including 18 years of Catholicism)


Someday, if you keep on the same track, you will be like pastor febus and find more hidden stuff in the Bible that we never knew about.

If prophecy were a salvational issue, you'd be lost as the day is long. lol

You know SO LITTLE about the viewpoint, and yet you claim you covered it. Anyway, this is what happens when you cannot answer biblical questions. You just refuse to consider anything you do not already believe and resort to general glosses of criticism.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Chapters 1-3 ?????? Where do you get the authority to say ONLY THE FIRST THREE CHAPTERS OF REVELATION were written to the seven churches? That is NOT STATED IN THE ENTIRE BOOK ANYWHERE!


I didnt say that...if I seemed to imply that, I apologize. I meant that the 4th chapter on was for their reading(of course) but they would not see the prophecies after chapter 3 fulfilled in their lifetimes...it is to the church of all ages, but a warning for the "last Days" church of today of these horrific events to come.(to clarify my statements)

You once again ADDED to the word. Any butchering so long as we keep our tradition, right?

No, just explaining it.(you already know what I believe, you are only "testing" me)...LOL

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

All you ever heard? All I ever gave was biblical arguments. Show me one quote where I said that. Give me post #.

Mike, to save time, just google.... MFBLUME josephus...its all over the net....LOL

[Godsdrummer]

This is so outlandish, how someone can refuse to admit what is plain before their eyes.

All bible prophecy was given to the intended generation it was spoken to not to any generation in the future. It is only when men/women attempt to make prophecy speak to future generations, that we get mixed up translations and twisted meanings, such as futurism, and dispensationism.

The primary reason, is that they refuse to understand the apocalyptic language of the writers, and instead try to force the language into literal meanings. Such as terms like the "sun and moon turning into blood". futurist want to force this to mean the sun and moon will literally turn to blood at some point in the future. Or the term the "stars falling from the sky", again they want this to mean the stars literally will fall from the sky. Or another term, "every eye shall see him" they say that when Christ returns that every eye will literally see him at the same exact time. Which is an physical impossibility. But that does not sway the futurist from believing such. Why do they believe this? Because they have been indoctrinated for years, they have never ever even heard any differing teachings, than what they have been told. And instead of trying to understand, instead they only study to refute something that differs from what they have been taught.

People like this have the same attitude the religious leaders of Christ day. in their belief that their Messiah was a political leader that they believed would set up a literal political kingdom that would set them free from Roman oppression, they completely missed what was right in front of them. That being that the kingdom of God was never to be a literal earthly kingdom, but a spiritual kingdom within the hearts of those that accepted him.

I am reminded of a story, of a women that always cut the ends off of her ham before cooking it. Her husband ask her one day, "why do you cut the ends of the ham off. She replied, "I don't know, my mom always did it this way". After going all the way to her great grandmother, to find out why, she found out that her great grandmother did it because her pan was to small for the ham to fit and she cut off the ends so it would fit. It had become a tradition, passed down from mother to daughter for three generations, until some one ask why.

This is the same thing with futurism, no one questioned why we believe this way, and when someone did, they began to see the error of the teaching. For three hundred or four hundred years, this teaching has been passed down with little to none, of anyone questioning the validity of this tradition. Just like the daughter that cut off the ends of her ham because that is the way mom did it.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Mike, to save time, just google.... MFBLUME josephus...its all over the net....LOL

You said I TOLD YOU NOTHING BUT what Josephus said. You cannot take one quote from me on this forum and prove it. And now you say GOOGLE it. I did google it and the only thing that came up was MFBLUME and JOSEPHUS was YOUR POST I am now responding to. Try it. lol

I use BIBLE. You simply throw dirt.

Still cannot answer my points, I see. Soon you will once again say you cannot respond any more and we never will get your responses, once again