Matthew 24 fulfilled

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

HERE IS MY LUKE 21 OUTLINE I PROMISED....Notice, no long explanations...Just easily understood passages laid out for the simple folks to read. The kind Jesus wants to save. Even a CAVEMAN could understand it...LOL


6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

They asked Jesus ONLY about the destruction of the temple here, but Jesus gives them more info than they actually asked for, just like Matt. 24...



8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven......
Now this above is the series of General signs before His 2nd coming.



Notice now..."but (before) all these", addressing their original question...
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. At this point, Jesus is finished with the destruction of Jerusalem explanation and proceeds to speak of His 2nd coming signs...


25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. These above are the signs that Jesus wanted to point out of His 2nd coming in these end times.

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Here, Jesus gives us a warning to watch for these signs, before His return...FOR THE WHOLE EARTH....LOOK BELOW

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the (whole earth).

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Again, for the reader

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

Okay, here goes...BTW..I am a pre/mid tribber.*......This was in last years debate with preterists.....


Matthew 24

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?...3 QUESTIONS HERE




4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
This is the worldwide, end of age part.





9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. This is the dispersion of Jews part. ad70



11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. This is a warning to end time Israel, before the Tribulation.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. This is during the tribulation and its ending.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. This is a warning to be watching, particularly Israel and the saints of God in the last days of the Last days events to precede the rapture and tribulation.





NOW HERE IS HIS DISCOURSE OF THE RAPTURE...
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



That is how ALL 3 questions are answered by the Lord. You guys blended it all together into the part of the Jews being dispersed only....This is what I call logical eschatology.(Notice, that I use very little commentary?). I showed you something easily understood, the way the gospel should be understood....simply



Note, I did not copy and paste this from elsewhere, I just have realized it and taught it that way.

I will not debate preterists anymore though. Im just sharing ideas here. Thanks

Again for the reader.....

[shag]

Originally Posted by Sean

HERE IS MY LUKE 21 OUTLINE I PROMISED....Notice, no long explanations...Just easily understood passages laid out for the simple folks to read. The kind Jesus wants to save. Even a CAVEMAN could understand it...LOL


6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

They asked Jesus ONLY about the destruction of the temple here, but Jesus gives them more info than they actually asked for, just like Matt. 24...



8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven......
Now this above is the series of General signs before His 2nd coming.



Notice now..."but (before) all these", addressing their original question...
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. At this point, Jesus is finished with the destruction of Jerusalem explanation and proceeds to speak of His 2nd coming signs...


25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. These above are the signs that Jesus wanted to point out of His 2nd coming in these end times.

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Here, Jesus gives us a warning to watch for these signs, before His return...FOR THE WHOLE EARTH....LOOK BELOW

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the (whole earth).

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So according to you, men's hearts failing them with fear and the powers of the heavens shaken has zero to do with the "these be the days of vengeance" since there is a 2000+ year jump between verse 24 & 25, correct ?


Just curious, do u also believe in the Gap theory in relation to creation?



Do u believe the listeners mistakingly thought that Jesus was referring to them, when he said "this generation..."?

And do you believe the listeners understood that 2000+ year gap between was was later labeled as vs24 & 25, as you see it?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by shag

So according to you, men's hearts failing them with fear and the powers of the heavens shaken has zero to do with the "these be the days of vengeance" since there is a 2000+ year jump between verse 24 & 25, correct ? Correct.


Just curious, do u also believe in the Gap theory in relation to creation? No



Do u believe the listeners mistakingly thought that Jesus was referring to them, when he said "this generation..."? No, it was spoken of as a "certain" generation.
There was no indication to the Apostles which generation these events would happen, other than the destruction of Jerusalem(which was spoken of as an independent matter..ie..."when shall these things be?").


And do you believe the listeners understood that 2000+ year gap between was was later labeled as vs24 & 25, as you see it?

No, they did not. This passage below was thought by them to be in their generation, but the Lord knew that ALL generations would read it. The "warning" below would be to a "certain" generation. The Lord "allows" all men to think it is their generation so they will be watching and be ready for the return of the BRIDEGROOM, as in Matt. 25.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[houston]

Really? Jesus said "you" to personalize it for a later generation? Ignorance IS a bliss.

[shag]

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.(days of His veangance-no fear?)
Ad70



2014+
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth


I can see where one would say the listeners would've missed a confusing 2000 year leap here...agreed.

[shag]

I just believe they were right

[mfblume]

The problem I see with prophecy is the lack of explanations. Two thousand years ago terms were used to speak of the then-known world that we take today as the entire planet because TERMS HAVE CHANGED. Unless we explain the first century thinking to a 21st century reader, THEY WILL GET IT WRONG. They will read it through 21st century lenses which is why there is futurism to begin with.

Without explanations, a two thousand year old statement will not be properly understood. Half a world of culture away with two thousand years thrown in DEMANDS explanation.

[mfblume]

CONTINUATION.

Matthew 24:16-21 KJV Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: (17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: (18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. (19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! (20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: (21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Why did Jesus tell people ONLY IN JUDAEA to flee to the mountains? Because then would be great tribulation. If it was wordlwide tribulation, He would nto have restricted it to JUDAEA.

Matthew 24:22-28 KJV And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. (24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (25) Behold, I have told you before. (26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. (27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

All Israelites would have perished if God did not step in and preserve the Jews. So long as there is a church there will be JEWS, because the CHURCH was meant FIRST FOR JEWS, and then Gentiles came in on the action with them. And the church is also known as the ELECT in the epistles, so it was cutting the thing short for the church's sake as well.

False prophets were warned about again.

THE EAGLES clearly depicted the Roman armies who carried idols of eagles in their ranks..

Matthew 24:29-31 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After the tribulation Jesus made us of the OLD TESTAMENT Hebrew manners of speaking to describe the horrors of a kingdom collapsing. STARS FALLING AND SUN AND MOON DARKENING. None of that really happened when THE SAME PHRASE was used in these passages, but kingdoms actually fell:

Isaiah 13:1, 10,13 - BABYLON'S fall.
Ezekiel 32:7-8 - EGYPT'S fall
Isaiah 34:4-5 - EDOM'S fall

THE SAME WORDS "gather together" were used in Matt 23:37, and that was not talking about the rapture. Why say it does here? Because of the trumpet? Trumpets sounded for many reasons. The gathering together of the elect is the SALVATION MESSAGE going out to gather them from sin, as chicks gathered to safety by the hen. Nothing about resurrection here. ELECT are those to be saved.

Matthew 24:30 KJV And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The SIGN is not the Lord Himself. It is a SIGN that HE IS IN HEAVEN. Jesus WENT IN CLOUDS INTO HEAVEN according to:

Daniel 7:13 KJV I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

THE SIGN that He is IN HEAVEN is the destruction of the city and temple to FULFILL HIS WORDS in Matt 24:2. The sign is not Jesus. Jesus is never a sign. lol. He is what the SIGNS POINT TO.

ALL THE TRIBES of the EARTH in Greek is TRIBES OF THE LAND. What mourning they had for the temple destruction!

Seeing the SON OF MAN coming in CLOUDS is an OLD TESTAMENT JUDGMENT WAY OF SPEAKING of wrath.

2 Samuel 22:11-12 KJV And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind. (12) And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.

No man ever saw God at any time. But here we read God was SEEN. And the same passage says THICK CLOUDS were with Him. This is simply speaking of JUDGMENT. Unless we become familiar with the REST OF THE BIBLE we will invariably MISTAKEN this to mean FACE-VALUE things. So, again, lack of explanation leaves people who are not aware of these other passages to misunderstand the,m. YOU HAVE TO KNOW YOUR BIBLE to know prophecy OR YOU WILL GET IT WRONG.. It's not just long explanations. IT IS BIBLE REFERENCING I AM DOING.

Matthew 24:32-34 KJV Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: (33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. (34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The FIG TREE IS NOT ISRAEL! The fig tree putting forth leaves here IS ALL THESE THINGS COMING TO PASS THAT HE LISTED. He flatly stated that! Like the fig tree putting leaves, WHEN WE SEE ALL THESE THINGS --- NOT SOME OF THEM -- the destruction of the temple will come.

ONE GENERATION would see ALL those events. NOT SOME OF THEM. The same generation that saw the temple destruction would see ALL THE REST.

Continued...

[mfblume]

Matthew 24:35-42 KJV Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (36) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, (39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (40) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (42) Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

No man would know the HOUR OF DESTRUCTION. Jesus would COME in DESTRUCTION.

Matthew 21:40-41 KJV When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? (41) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

The FLOOD CAME like JESUS WOULD COME---- TO DESTROY.

The ones TAKEN BY THE FLOOD were taken in destruction. Jesus is like the flood. HE WOULD COME AND TAKE PEOPLE IN DEATH. The ones who were TAKEN were the ones marrying, giving in marriage who KNEW NOT til the FLOOD TOOK THEM.

So shall it be when Jesus comes. In other words when Jesus said ONE IS TAKEN form the field and the other left, THE TAKEN MUST BE SINNERS who are destroyed by the coming, because IT WAS SINNERS TAKEN BY THE FLOOD in Noah's day.

You do not say it was like Noah's day when you speak of people being taken and mean a rapture to safety if you just said NOAH'S day saw people TAKEN in destruction! You have to be consistent with WHO IS "TAKEN" between both stories if both stories including a TAKING and you said, "As it was then, so shall it be when Jesus comes." . If sinners were "TAKEN" in Noah's day then SINNERS are "TAKEN" when Jesus comes according to this chapter.

To say this is the rapture taking saints is so full of grammatical errors, an English teacher would pull his/her hair all out! lol

continued..