Apostolics and Secular Music

[obriencp]

A few pages back it seemed like everybody was throwing stones at churches that make church fun, have modern music, and apparently are sending a bunch of young people to hell. Why can't we see what they're doing right and try to apply similar techniques? We're so "holier than thou" that we can't even appreciate the fact that large numbers of youth are at least getting exposed to Jesus. SMH.

[Pendragon]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Do you honestly believe Jesus would entertain himself with pop music in all its inanity? Just curious.

No, I can't picture Jesus listening to pop music. However I also rarely listen to pop music for exactly that reason. Frankly, although I'm sure Jesus heard music on occasion as he walked around Israel, I can't picture him putting in earbuds and listening to music of any kind. I suppose whatever you are picturing internally when you think of Jesus+music really depends on the Personal Jesus you have created in your mind, because we don't have any scripture that discusses Jesus+music in any context.

However, if you want to go down that particular logical path, here are some other intriguing thoughts in the 'WWJD' category:

Would Jesus marry and have sexual relations with his wife?
Jesus drank alcoholic drinks. Do you ever drink wine or beer?
Would Jesus drink a coffee while reading the newspaper?
Jesus had a beard. Do you?
Jesus hung out with sinners, but would Jesus go to a ball game?
Would Jesus play golf?
Would Jesus cruise in a Corvette with the top down? Would he drive a Corvette? Would Jesus cruise in a Ford Taurus with the windows down? Would Jesus drive any car?
Would Jesus take a road trip vacation? Would he take any vacation?
Would Jesus go out to a Michelin-starred restaurant and enjoy a fancy meal?
Would Jesus watch a movie? Would he go to an IMAX and watch a documentary about bears?
Have you ever healed anyone?
Have you ever cast out a demon?
Have you performed any miracles?
Would Jesus have any Internet-enabled devices? Would he use the Internet?
Would Jesus own a home? In that home, would he care if he use a $100 spring mattress or would he dish out the cash for a $2000 memory foam mattress?
Would Jesus run the aisles?
Would Jesus own an iPad?
Would Jesus go to a carnival? If so, would he ride any rides?

I know we need to be like Jesus, but we are also un-perfected humans, and spending 100% of our time healing the sick, teaching, and spreading the gospel the way Jesus did just isn't possible or realistic. If you spend your whole life searching you would never find someone who is or has been exactly like Jesus and never spends any of their time on personal downtime or entertainment. Entertaining ourselves, within reasonable limits (which is a completely different and lengthy discussion), is perfectly acceptable and normal behavior for a disciple of Jesus.

[Pendragon]

Originally Posted by Esphes45

Now I define a secular song as any song that does not lift up the name of Jesus.

You bring to mind an interesting point. Some Christians have the opinion that music is inherently spiritual. I personally believe music is entertainment in the same sense that food is entertainment. Food makes us feel good because of our taste buds, whereas music makes us feel good because of the harmonics, rhythm, etc. (there is a WHOLE lot more to it than that! but for the sake of brevity i'll end it with 'etc.')

Now, I do believe music can be twisted for evil by the lyrics that are added to it, which convey a message. The nice sounds and rhythm sooth you and make you feel good, but meanwhile the artist slips a bad message through while your defenses are down. On the other hand, if the lyrics aren't sending a bad message, how is music bad simply because it doesn't uplift God? Are you aware that music is simply audible mathematics? Music is order and logic, and all music has its source in God. To argue against a particular sound/style of music simply because it was 'discovered' by a secular artist is about as logical as arguing against sex because people are fornicating.

Another way that I can see music having a bad influence is by provoking sinful memories. Many people who came out of the world will be 'triggered' by the sound of music they used to listen to while they were high or drunk or at the bar, or in some other sinful situation. For someone like myself, who was raised in the church, this is not an issue, but I wouldn't want my liberty to cause someone else to stumble, so when I'm around other believers I stick to purely Christian music to be on the safe side.

Does anyone have scripture that would support the argument that music is inherently bad if it doesn't uplift God?

[n david]

The real question is "Would Jesus wear a Rolex on His Television show?"

[Michael The Disciple]

I agree with a lot of what you said. I want to comment on this:

Pendragon

I suppose whatever you are picturing internally when you think of Jesus+music really depends on the Personal Jesus you have created in your mind, because we don't have any scripture that discusses Jesus+music in any context.

Rev 14:1-5

1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

In worship I perceive Christ like this at times. He is accepting worship from those who are faultless before him. He likes stringed instruments, harps are mentioned. Guitars are stringed instruments also. Part of my personal time with him is playing my guitar and singing to him. I play acoustic guitar but nonetheless he seems to like it loud as in verse 2.

As to secular music as I said earlier I dont think its wrong to listen to some of it. Of course music that promotes sin would be sinful. Another thing to consider is that music can be very addicting. If listening to secular music keeps ones mind focused toward it they should war against it and give it no place.

However if one can fill their mind with the praises of Elohim thats all the better. If we enjoy a certain kind of Christian music far better to spend time with it than secular.

Now there is a certain strand of secular music that when I was young always made me think about God and Christ. I have a playlist on Youtube of some of those. I like to visit them now and then to remind me of that feeling of being hungry to know God at a time when I didn't. Im sure many would not perceive them the way I do yet Elohim uses different things to draw different people.

So I say keep the Christian music foremost! Use it to build up our spirits! Use what you enjoy! This I say concerning music we listen to at home or in the car.

I do feel Church gathering music should be things the entire group should be able to sing together.

I love these music threads.

[n david]

Michael - have you listened to United Pursuit? They have a few songs I like. They also have a free webcast every Tuesday you can watch at live.unitedpursuit.com. I watched some of it this past Tuesday and it was interesting. They were in the middle of a large room with people standing or in chairs all around the singers/musicians. I watched 30 or 45 minutes and they would just go from one song into another song and have periods of soft worship. I didn't recognize any of the songs, so I'm not sure if they were new songs, or if they were just ad-libbing.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by n david

Michael - have you listened to United Pursuit? They have a few songs I like. They also have a free webcast every Tuesday you can watch at live.unitedpursuit.com. I watched some of it this past Tuesday and it was interesting. They were in the middle of a large room with people standing or in chairs all around the singers/musicians. I watched 30 or 45 minutes and they would just go from one song into another song and have periods of soft worship. I didn't recognize any of the songs, so I'm not sure if they were new songs, or if they were just ad-libbing.

I have not heard of them but I will check them out.

[BrotherEastman]

If one has to incorporate "Christian Rock" to draw people to Christ then they are as lost as two boys kissing. How do you distinguish the words from the music?

[Michael The Disciple]

Hey I saw this on Youtube by United Pursuit. I had heard a few things by Will Reagen but did not know this was his band.

I noticed he wrote the MAGNIFICENT song called "Break Every Chain". I have heard some really good versions of it. Here is his, the original.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

If one has to incorporate "Christian Rock" to draw people to Christ then they are as lost as two boys kissing. How do you distinguish the words from the music?

How do you know they are lost? Would you be ok with it if you could hear the words? Do you consider whether a song honors Christ? What the words are actually saying? Does the volume bother you?

When I started attending my first Pentecostal Church in 1975 they used to mock non Pentecostals and talk how God likes it loud!