Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

"Oneness" inherently describes a union between two distinct things. Don't confuse the term "oneness" with "singleness".

This is the main argument Trins use against the truth. It is absolute trite.

One YHWH means he is one single YHWH. How easily this is proved in Gods holy word. The Trin scholars have pretty much ruined modern Apostolics in many ways.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The Oneness message was and is that Christ is both the Father and the Son.

Amen. Read that over and over and over. The man, Jesus Christ, is BOTH the Father and the Son.

[Aquila]

If a man we were talking to at a bus stop were a man living in perfect spiritual union with God from conception... would he not be both himself... and God???

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

If one does not believe Jesus is the Father, that is YHWH the one and only true God they do not believe in the message which was the foundation of all the early Oneness orgs.

Beware... the "Oneness orgs" are most often the problem with why people don't see that Jesus is both man and God and are not baptized in His name... and filled with the Spirit.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is the main argument Trins use against the truth. It is absolute trite.

One YHWH means he is one single YHWH. How easily this is proved in Gods holy word. The Trin scholars have pretty much ruined modern Apostolics in many ways.

But if you have a YHWH living in two distinct "modes" simultaneously (Modalism)... you have two YHWHs. One here... and one over there.

It's essentially the same problem that is found in Trinitarianism... except these aren't distinct eternal persons... they are emanating modes of existence. You still have "two" Gods. Only now... one became two or three... instead of always being two or three. It's the very same mathematical problem as Trinitarianism.

But... if the one and only YHWH were to choose to be in perfect spiritual union with a zygote from it's conception (incarnation) and partake in that man's very nature as that man partook in God's very nature... God would have become a man in Him... and He would have been a man who was also God from conception.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Amen. Read that over and over and over. The man, Jesus Christ, is BOTH the Father and the Son.

Bro. I believe that the way that Jesus can be considered the FATHER is because of the indwelling FATHER.

Not only because Jesus was in perfect union with the Father. (That is just an effect of having the indwelling Father)

Do you agree?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Beware... the "Oneness orgs" are most often the problem with why people don't see that Jesus is both man and God and are not baptized in His name... and filled with the Spirit.

The Oneness Orgs did NOT originate around tithing. Nor around whether it was sin for a woman to trim her hair or to preach men into Hell for a beard.

NONE OF THAT WAS THE REASON.

They were formed on the belief that Jesus was the only true God, the Father.

They were right in that. They have many added traditions and other false doctrines. On this matter they were right.

[Michael The Disciple]

Was Jesus the God of the OT? Or did he merely begin at Bethlehem?

Remember Paul in 1 Cor 10:4 said the Rock with Israel WAS CHRIST. So we know that Christ pre existed. How did he pre exist?

2The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalms 18:2

Here again as in about 22 other places YHWH is called THE ROCK.

But Paul said that Rock was Christ! YES! Was he an apostle or not? Do you think he knew more about Christ than todays preachers?

So yes Christ pre existed as the only God.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sean

Bro. I believe that the way that Jesus can be considered the FATHER is because of the indwelling FATHER.

Not only because Jesus was in perfect union with the Father. (That is just an effect of having the indwelling Father)

Do you agree?

He can also be considered THE FATHER because he is the Father of the world itself!

He was in the world and the world was made by him and the world knew him not. John 1:10

We now live in an era where it might be said even of Apostolic Churches THEY KNOW HIM NOT.

If one knows Jesus as the Son but not as the Father they only know half of what and who he is.

[Michael The Disciple]

Let us continue our Oneness lesson.

We know the Apostle Paul said that in the OT THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

With that key wonderful revelations can be discovered!

Like this!

Psalms 18:31

For who is God save YHWH? or who is a rock save our God?

According to scripture there is NO ROCK except YHWH the God of Israel!

What did Paul say again? THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST!