Mark of the beast idea

[Sean]

Are we now in the Millennial?

Are wars to cease in the millennial?.....Isaiah 2:4 He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

Almost 200 MILLION people died from wars in the last century alone.


Thats more than lived on the earth when it was written.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Bowas

My point is simply, what does the Bible say about when it would be? If He said it was soon, it was soon. It is on us to be able to understand the how and the when.
Soon in all instances means shortly come to pass. That I have to accept, or else I would be saying the Bible is in error.

Unless you or I can provide a date in history, we have no point...We are still waiting, or our Bible is wrong.

Maybe "soon" and "quickly" had a broader meaning than we think?


Howbout this parable....13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.



A FAR country take a while in those days....think about it bro.

[Bowas]

Is it possible you are looking at this from the perspective that it could not have happened soon back then, instead of, how could it have happened then.
Here is the simple phrases. "soon" "at hand" "shortly come to pass." Yes, one can pull many abstract scriptures to attempt to negate what these words mean, but still they mean the things mentioned was just about to happen then. Once that is understood and accepted, the meanings of the symbols can begin to come into focus. No, I do not understand all of it, but I have to accept certain things and build on that. What did this language mean to them at that time. Soon, then means the same as it does today.

[Sean]

Like we asked bro....just a date in history will suffice.

This should have been monumental in history, right?

His first coming literally changed the world right?

His 2nd coming was unnoticed in history?

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by Sean

Like we asked bro....just a date in history will suffice.

This should have been monumental in history, right?

His first coming literally changed the world right?

His 2nd coming was unnoticed in history?

Do you agree soon means shortly?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Bowas

Do you agree soon means shortly?

It gives no time stamp.

When did the 2nd coming occur in any historical account please?

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by Sean

It gives no time stamp.

When did the 2nd coming occur in any historical account please?

With due respect, if the most basic concept of "soon" is not a time stamp of "about to occur" is not understood, then the more detailed or complex points to discuss, would be even more difficult to explain.
If possible, can one explain how or why "soon" is not to be expected to be "soon?"
Forget everything else about the second coming and just present why "soon" is not soon."
If "soon" doesn't mean "soon," then it would appear the Bible is misleading. Is it?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Bowas

With due respect, if the most basic concept of "soon" is not a time stamp of "about to occur" is not understood, then the more detailed or complex points to discuss, would be even more difficult to explain.
If possible, can one explain how or why "soon" is not to be expected to be "soon?"
Forget everything else about the second coming and just present why "soon" is not soon."
If "soon" doesn't mean "soon," then it would appear the Bible is misleading. Is it?

Bro. It just depends on an ETERNAL God and what He considers "soon". The bottom line here is Jesus has not returned yet and His word is on the line.
(unless you can show me an article in history when his 2nd coming actually happened)

I hope that makes sense to you bro.

You and I are BOTH still waiting and watching to see if the Lord is going to fulfill His word now.

Its not on us to figure out, it is on the Lord now.

[Sean]

I personally think that Peter had a "reality check" when he wrote this passage....3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Peter knew some time would pass, folks would mock and he reminded the saints that God is not a "slacker"(after a while, men call us slackers when we take forever to get something done, men are in this passage calling the Lord a slacker, because the 'fathers" already died and nothing happened). He exorted them to not give up waiting.

[Sean]

Peter knew he would die. He was commenting on the early church fathers falling asleep.

You may find this commentary enlightening......Barnes notes on 2 Pet. 3...

For since the fathers fell asleep. Since they died---death being often, in the Scriptures, as elsewhere, represented as sleep. Notes, John xi. 11; I Cor. xi. 30. This reference to the "fathers," by such scoffers, was probably designed to be ironical and contemptuous. Perhaps the meaning may be thus expressed: "These old men, the prophets, indeed foretold this event. They were much concerned and troubled about it; and their predictions alarmed others, and filled their bosoms with dread. They looked out for the signs of the end of the world, and expected that that day was drawing near. But those good men have died. They lived to old age, and then died as others; and since they have departed, the affairs of the world have gone on very much as they did before. The earth is suffered to have rest, and the laws of nature operate in the same way that they always did." It seems not improbable that the immediate reference in the word fathers is not to the prophets of former times, but to aged and pious men of the times of the apostles, who had dwelt much on this subject, and who had made it a subject of conversation and of preaching. Those old men, said the scoffing objector, have died like others; and, notwithstanding their confident predictions, things now move on as they did from the beginning.