Apostles never preached hell?

[Michael The Disciple]

As for everlasting destruction meaning a burning fire, not sure what that means. The bible (old and new) uses fire as the metaphor for God's destruction of the wicked. John saw a lake of fire. Daniel saw a river of fire. Jesus spoke of a burning garbage dump. Isaiah spoke of everlasting burnings. Seems pretty clear

Reminds me of this:

Psalms 21:9

9Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.

Kind of making a long story short. The fire devours or "consumes".

[Abiding Now]

I'm sure the rich man in Luke 16:19 -31 "and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments" and "I am tormented in this flame" probably wished that the fire of hell would "destroy him".

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

I'm sure the rich man in Luke 16:19 -31 "and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments" and "I am tormented in this flame" probably wished that the fire of hell would "destroy him".

Could a man in a fire carry on a conversation?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Could a man in a fire carry on a conversation?

Yes

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Sean

Yes

Sure

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

I'm sure the rich man in Luke 16:19 -31 "and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments" and "I am tormented in this flame" probably wished that the fire of hell would "destroy him".

Nothing in the parable says the rich man had now attained immortality. Only that at present he was tormented in flame. It was just a parable to show there would be punishment or reward in the afterlife.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

I'm sure the rich man in Luke 16:19 -31 "and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments" and "I am tormented in this flame" probably wished that the fire of hell would "destroy him".

Would you like to address the fact that the only time Paul mentions "Hades" is when Christians are brought out of it at the resurrection?

[Michael The Disciple]

Probably the main stumbling block for people to see this truth of eternal destrutction (annihilation) is Gods perception of time is not ours.

Forever in Hebrew means something like "to the horizon", like as far as the eye can see.

Jonah the Prophet confessed he went to Hell forever!


2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
2:3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
2:4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
2:5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God. Jonah 2:1-6

Yet Jesus telling the same story said he was there 3 days.

12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt. 12:40

The difference is in this.

3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8

Between God and Jonah those 3 days were like forever! Like they would never end. Yet Jesus (who put Jonah there) later says it all happened in 3 days.

In the time of judgment we should consider with God one day is as a thousand years but a thousand years is as a day. Some may be in Gehenna a long, long time. Others may be destroyed in a day.

[Michael The Disciple]

Part 1

My study isnt as scholarly as many but it is straight to the point.

Allow me to build a bit of foundation. We see in the gospels both Yeshua and John the Baptist preaching about punishment of fire for the wicked. The big question is where did they get the doctrine? If we can find their REFERENCE POINT we will understand their meaning. The last Prophet before Yeshua and John was MALACHI. I believe much of their doctrine in this matter is referenced back to him.

For behold the DAY cometh that shall BURN AS AN OVEN: and all the proud yea and all THAT DO WICKEDLY shall be STUBBLE: and the DAY that cometh shall BURN THEM UP saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them NEITHER ROOT NOR BRANCH. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked for they shall be ASHES UNDER THE SOLES OF YOUR FEET in the day that I shall do this saith the Lord of Hosts. MALACHI 4:1-3

Notice Malachi's emphasis is on THE DESTRUCTION OF THE WICKED. Keeping this in mind lets go to the gospels and visit the teaching of Yeshua and John.

And now also the ax is laid to the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. John the Baptist in Matt.3:10

The enemy that sowed them is the devil: the harvest is the end of the world: and the reapers are the angels.
As therefore the TARES are gathered and BURNED IN THE FIRE so shall it be in the end of this world. Matt.13:39-40

So shall it be at the end of the world the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them INTO THE FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matt.13:49-50

Whose fan is in his hand and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner, but THE CHAFF HE WILL BURN with fire unquenchable. John in Luke 3:17

Now my question is where did Yeshua and John get the concepts of the FURNACE OF FIRE? Was it not the same as Malachi's Fiery OVEN?
How about the concept of THE TARES and THE CHAFF? Is it not the same as Malachi's STUBBLE? If they are indeed referring back to Malachi his prophetic words carried the message of the DESTRUCTION OF THE WICKED as opposed to their never ending torment.

This harmonizes with what GOD had already declared to be the punishment of sin.

Behold all souls are mine, as the soul of the father so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul THAT SINNETH IT SHALL DIE. Ezekiel 18:4

If Yeshua and John were not referring back to Malachi, where was their reference point?

And fear not them which KILL the body but are not able to KILL the soul: but rather fear him which is able to DESTROY both SOUL AND BODY IN HELL. Matt.10:28

It was no doubt the destruction of the wicked in Malachi's OVEN Yeshua had in mind.

[Michael The Disciple]

Note Nehemiah 9:5

Then the Levites, Jeshua, and Kadmiel, Bani, Hashabniah, Sherebiah, Hodijah, Shebaniah, and Pethahiah, said, Stand up and bless the LORD your God for ever and ever:

They told the people to bless the Lord for how long? FOR EVER AND EVER.

Are they still standing there today? THINK ABOUT IT.

I know its hard to accept something you have always heard was false. When I was a Trinitarian there seemed to be plenty of evidence for my belief. The problem was I was working from a wrong foundation. As I began to study from scripture and forget what men were saying my picture of God began to change.

Why? I found the bottom line. The true point of reference.

It works the same with any truth. The bottom line of the punishment for the wicked is given plainly in the Old and New Covenant scriptures as being the death of the wicked.

When you get that. Then you can more clearly interpret the doctrine.

Apostolics should be very concerned that the one who wrote most of the New Covenant scriptures never once mentiond burning through all eternity. He was very consistent in all his writings that the DESTRUCTION of the wicked would be their judgment.