Would you stay in a church if...

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What's wrong with fellowshiping with debate? Is debate all about being enemies? Indeed! Very enlightening! I guess you must think me an enemy when you debate me. Gotcha!

You, my enemy! My, oh my, how presumptuous of you. Did I assert, suggest, or even insinuate in nany manner whatsoever, that the participants in discussions or dialogue about a matter in the Debate Room was restricted or confined to "enemies"? Surely you jest!

Can one not disagree with another's expressed beliefs about a matter and not be their enemy? Of course! I've always considered you as a "friend," and NOT as an "enemy." Do we have differing opinions about some things? Yes! And what are those who called themselves disciples of Jesus Christ commanded to do when they discover what they believe to be a "fault" in the epressed beliefs of another brother in Christ? Is it not to engage in a discussion between the two in a effort to reconcile such differences so they align more perfectly to the sacred principles of the Scriptures? Of course!

With utmost candor, my friend, I must express my feelings concerning how I perceive your relationship to me, and it is this: I gather from your statements during discussions and dialogue with me, that you, being a pastor, yea, even a former licensed minister of the UPCI, apparently consider me (and I ask your forgiveness if I am amiss in what I am about to say), to be less than your equal, although everyone that has become an "adopted" son of God are, in His sight equal, being priests in a royal priesthood! And, UNTIL, or UNLESS you are able to consider me as an EQUAL, you will NEVER be able to accept, much less even consider the "possibility" that God has revealed a truth to me that He has not yet revealed to you.

I'll just leave it at that, hoping that you will not respond hastily, but expend some time in contemplating the value, if any, in what I've written.

And, may God richly bless you, my "friend"! I do mean that most sincerely! May God forbid that it be otherwise.

[Esaias]

I like brother Lafon.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esphes45

you did not believe 100% of what is being taught is truth?

No.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Lafon

You, my enemy! My, oh my, how presumptuous of you. Did I assert, suggest, or even insinuate in nany manner whatsoever, that the participants in discussions or dialogue about a matter in the Debate Room was restricted or confined to "enemies"? Surely you jest!

Can one not disagree with another's expressed beliefs about a matter and not be their enemy? Of course! I've always considered you as a "friend," and NOT as an "enemy." Do we have differing opinions about some things? Yes! And what are those who called themselves disciples of Jesus Christ commanded to do when they discover what they believe to be a "fault" in the epressed beliefs of another brother in Christ? Is it not to engage in a discussion between the two in a effort to reconcile such differences so they align more perfectly to the sacred principles of the Scriptures? Of course!

With utmost candor, my friend, I must express my feelings concerning how I perceive your relationship to me, and it is this: I gather from your statements during discussions and dialogue with me, that you, being a pastor, yea, even a former licensed minister of the UPCI, apparently consider me (and I ask your forgiveness if I am amiss in what I am about to say), to be less than your equal, although everyone that has become an "adopted" son of God are, in His sight equal, being priests in a royal priesthood! And, UNTIL, or UNLESS you are able to consider me as an EQUAL, you will NEVER be able to accept, much less even consider the "possibility" that God has revealed a truth to me that He has not yet revealed to you.

I'll just leave it at that, hoping that you will not respond hastily, but expend some time in contemplating the value, if any, in what I've written.

And, may God richly bless you, my "friend"! I do mean that most sincerely! May God forbid that it be otherwise.

Thanks for the clarification. I in no way consider anyone here, including you, inferior to me. By no means. God is no respector of persons and I wholeheartedly believe that we must be the same. I very much do believe you could have a truth not yet known to me. In what we differ on according to our discussions at the present, I do not see any I honestly feel are truths not revealed to me. But if I knew I was wrong i would not believe what I presently do.

But it's a two-way street. From all our discussions, has there been anything you disagreed with me about that you felt I did receive from God and to which you had to alter your beliefs and adhere?

If not, then does that mean you think you are superior to me? I think not. Same with me.

[thephnxman]

I believe that most of us are part of (belong to) a congregation whose teachings are most closely related to what we believe is the Truth;
and that no one will remain in a place whose core values are grossly different.

Personally, I would not tolerate preaching that would neglect or deny any part of Mark 16:16;
this, of course includes Acts 2:38; and I Corinthians 15:1-4.

Additionally, I would rather be among ministers that are "...apt to learn."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

I believe that most of us are part of (belong to) a congregation whose teachings are most closely related to what we believe is the Truth;
and that no one will remain in a place whose core values are grossly different.

Personally, I would not tolerate preaching that would neglect or deny any part of Mark 16:16;
this, of course includes Acts 2:38; and I Corinthians 15:1-4.

Additionally, I would rather be among ministers that are "...apt to learn."

Agreed.

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

I believe that most of us are part of (belong to) a congregation whose teachings are most closely related to what we believe is the Truth;
and that no one will remain in a place whose core values are grossly different.

Personally, I would not tolerate preaching that would neglect or deny any part of Mark 16:16;
this, of course includes Acts 2:38; and I Corinthians 15:1-4.

Additionally, I would rather be among ministers that are "...apt to learn."

I agree but from my experience preachers are not willing to even consider something they might have missed if it will involve changing their ways.

That is very bad and definitely not spiritual. Your Holy Ghost should hear the Word.

If you are in-charge/over/whatever a flock you should very careful about what you are teaching them.

I myself left a church because it was teaching my children stuff I didn't agree with. I consider my household my church and it is up to me to make sure what they hear is truth.

Preachers need to be able to separate personal thoughts from God's thoughts. Then we could be in unity, preach truth and have church like God intended

Again I say if we accept anything less than 100% truth, God's coming was in vain because he brought it. Who God sent will speak God's Word

[KeptByTheWord]

Paul was always careful to mention the difference when he was writing whether he was writing the commandments of the Lord, or his own personal preference. Shepherds over the flock should be very careful as to what they try to enforce or bring forth over the pulpit as the word of God, when it may just be their personal preference.

[Lafon]

Mike Blume

From all our discussions, has there been anything you disagreed with me about that you felt I did receive from God and to which you had to alter your beliefs and adhere?

Not yet, Mike, BUT that's not saying that there could not be something in the future you might disclose that would cause me to alter/change my beliefs about a matter. I've always maintained that a "good teacher is one who remains teachable," and I try to adhere to that slogan.

Have I attained "perfection" in the things I embrace as truth regarding all of the elementary principles of the doctrine of Christ (as listed in Hebrews 6:1-2)? Although I would like to think that I always strive toward achieving that goal, I must admit that I might not yet have attained it. But I do try, daily! And I suspect that the same can be said of you.

As we would both agree, and this I have no doubt about, it is the writings of the sacred Scriptures which MUST be the final Arbitrator when it comes to whose beliefs are right, for none are so pious that they're beyond the ability of the enemy to deceive. And that includes you and I both! So we simply must "keep on keeping on," continually striving for that state of spiritual perfection that our Lord commanded (Matthew 5:48).

[Lafon]

With the help of the Holy Ghost, I shall NEVER compromise on any of the truths which make up the elementary principles of the doctrine of Christ as enumerated in the words of Hebrews 6:1-2!