Seriously disgusted with ...

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus

What?

And why are you calling me beloved?

Sorry. Didn't know you were exempted.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus

What?

And why are you calling me beloved?

Do you not want to be beloved by your Christian brothers and sisters? What was wrong with that?

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Do you not want to be beloved by your Christian brothers and sisters? What was wrong with that?

It's freaky, since I don't know the person. And I also find it condescending and distracting and contrived.

And my main point what whatever "tu-tu" was supposed to mean and how that related.

[FalseFreedom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafon View Post
These word of Paul, written to the 1st Century Christians at Galatia, gives me sufficient Scriptural evidence for refusing to believe in Santa, participate in the ritual of "Christmas," or teach others that its "no big deal" if they choose to do so:

"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

What better reason does one require for refusing to become involved in Santa Claus, or Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer foolishness? I know of NONE!
I've read that scripture many times, and never thought that it would apply to Christmas, well, because they didn't even have a "Christmas" then. I've always understood that verse to mean the Jewish calendar holidays and celebrations.

But... keeping a day set apart to worship the Lord - separately and distinctly - and not combining it with a host of other holiday traditions, I certainly think would be in keeping with the principle this verse is speaking of.

You have believed this to be assigned to the "Jewish feasts and holydays" however, Lafond has placed this in the proper context. First of all the "jewish feasts" are God's Feasts and Holy days and should never be assigned to the weak and beggarly elements of the world. Second, God's Feasts are more Christian in nature than they were ever Judaistic. Every appointed time (Feast) pointed to the Messiah (Jesus) and therefore Christian Holydays and not weak and beggarly.

Now think of this when you want to practice a worldly holyday and assign the name of God to the practice of it. the same applies to Easter, Halloween, and any other holiday thought up by the vain philosophies of mankind that become the spoils of those that rob you of our Fathers ways and blessings.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by FalseFreedom

You have believed this to be assigned to the "Jewish feasts and holydays" however, Lafond has placed this in the proper context. First of all the "jewish feasts" are God's Feasts and Holy days and should never be assigned to the weak and beggarly elements of the world. Second, God's Feasts are more Christian in nature than they were ever Judaistic. Every appointed time (Feast) pointed to the Messiah (Jesus) and therefore Christian Holydays and not weak and beggarly.

Now think of this when you want to practice a worldly holyday and assign the name of God to the practice of it. the same applies to Easter, Halloween, and any other holiday thought up by the vain philosophies of mankind that become the spoils of those that rob you of our Fathers ways and blessings.

There is no directive, either in the words of Jesus, or in the words of Paul, or any other NT writer on exactly which days of the Lord should be kept, is there? I haven't found them.

What I have found is that no day should be set apart as better or less than another, but that every day should be worthy of giving the Lord our best.

[MarkBelosa]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The Birth of the Lord versus Day of Gifts

I've been thinking about this a lot, and what I'm about to say will probably really not go over well, but here it is... (help me Lord!)

Many people talk about keeping Christ in Christmas, when in reality history shows us that Christ was never the original reason for Christmas, but was an afterthought to try to get more people to participate in the pagan holiday celebrations. Perhaps it is time for a separation of the gift giving season, and the celebration of the birth of our Lord.

Christians who really want to make celebrating the birth of our Lord about simply that, His birth, should consider this. After all, most historians believe that Jesus was born closer to time of the Feast of Tabernacles (around the end of September, first of October). Why not celebrate the birth of our Lord then, when it will only be about Him? Set aside a day during that time of year and gather your family around, and tell the story of the Lord's birth, and have special worship and prayer together as a family thanking the Lord for the miracle that His birth brought to us. Have a day set aside that is really just about the Lord, and celebrating the miracle of his birth.

What happens today on Christmas generally is that the gift giving, huge meals, and all the rest that goes along with “Christmas” overshadows the supposed true reason for the day.

If the two were separated, and Christians were to set a day closer to the time frame Jesus was born as a day to really worship, and be thankful for his birth, then the celebration of the pagan holiday gift giving season could continue. It could be called - the Day of Gifts (a phrase I've coined, lol!) - and it could be celebrated like you would Valentines Day, 4th of July, or any other national holiday. This would ensure that the celebration of the Lord's birth would not be overshadowed by the materialistic mindset of the holiday season as we now know it. The "Day of Gifts" could be one where you give gifts to those you love and appreciate, and enjoy a simple family celebration together, and if you want to get excited about all the lights, tinsel, bows, sugar and gifts, then at least it wouldn’t be overshadowing the birth of the Lord, as it is now. The materialistic mindset of the season as it is now is so far from the original and true meaning of Christ’s birth, that the irony of it all is incredible. Christ came as a servant, a nobody, to be born in a stinky manger, with straw and poo as his bedding, and we somehow turn this scene into glitz, lights, gifts and “give me, give me”. The whole mentality is completely against and foreign to the very reason for His birth.

So... do you think it would work - to endeavor to keep the celebration of the birth of the Lord and the "Day of Gifts" separate?

In my opinion, the message and celebration of His birth is far overshadowed by the "give and get" mentality this time of year. I wish the two could be separated.

Is it even possible?

Does anyone else want to celebrate the Lord and all his many blessings because He chose to come and be born into this world in a stinky manger with pigs, sheep, cows and two scared parents to welcome him... all to redeem a world who didn’t even know Him, without having the time of worship complicated by thoughts of gift giving, food, parties, and indulgence?

I don't want the worship in my heart to Him for the message of what His birth means to me.... to be soiled and marred with the materialistic overtones of "give and get".

Our family in the last few years has began to turn away from the materialistic and pagan rituals of Christmas, and instead spent time in prayer early Christmas morning, after reading the story of the birth of the Lord, and shared loving gifts to each other that were small and meaningful. It has been a very special time together as a family.

However, I wonder if it could be taken a step further than this, and hence my reason for sharing this. It takes a long time to turn a huge ship around, but perhaps the more people begin to stop and think about it all, perhaps a change could be effected. Most people don’t stop and think about it, but simply go along with what tradition has always dictated. Maybe it is time to change that.

Interesting thought! I kinda like it.

The group that I fellowship with don't celebrate it, and I also don't. But through the years I have "developed" a greater sense of "tolerance" for those who do.

Here in the Philippines, the Christmas season starts as early as September and lasts until about early to mid January. If I had it my way, I probably would set up a special day of worship as you suggested (last Sunday of Sept maybe?) to celebrate the birth of the Lord, minus the pagan symbols, etc. and then invite unbelievers. I don't know about others but I have observed that some people tend to be more kindhearted and open to hearing about Jesus during this time of the year so we might as well take advantage of it.

Not sure how my pastor would react to this, in case I suggest it to him, but given the conservative stance of the church on this matter, I doubt if they would entertain any association with the celebration of Christmas whatsoever.

[Esphes45]

I teach my kids to celebrate the birth of Christ every day by living a good life. That is what it is all about.

Luke 1:75 - In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

There is no directive, either in the words of Jesus, or in the words of Paul, or any other NT writer on exactly which days of the Lord should be kept, is there? I haven't found them.

What I have found is that no day should be set apart as better or less than another, but that every day should be worthy of giving the Lord our best.

Under the dictates of the Law the Sabbath (7th Day) was consecrated as holy unto the Lord ("Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" - Exodus 20:8), for it was symbolic of the 7th day when the LORD God rested "from all his work which he had made" (Genesis 2:2).

However, with the institution of the "New Covenant," and the giving of the Spirit to His saints, we are told that "This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing" (see Isaiah 28:11-12).

I am persuaded to believe that it was because of Isaiah's prophetic words that Paul the apostle was prompted to pen the words of Galatians 4:9-11, wherein he questioned why these saints (as well as every saint today) were desirous of returning to the former practice of "observing days," such as the Sabbath, expressing his fear that all of his labor in assisting them to become Christians had been expended in vain should they continue to do so.

Therefore, because of these things, as well as the admonitions contained in Hebrews 4:1-11 regarding the "rest" which God gives to those to whom He has given to possess the Spirit, then, for me, I do not, nor will I ever again, as I did prior to my conversion from the beggarly elements of the world, esteem one day above another, for every day is to be construed as being holy unto the Lord.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Lafon

Therefore, because of these things, as well as the admonitions contained in Hebrews 4:1-11 regarding the "rest" which God gives to those to whom He has given to possess the Spirit, then, for me, I do not, nor will I ever again, as I did prior to my conversion from the beggarly elements of the world, esteem one day above another, for every day is to be construed as being holy unto the Lord.

I do believe what you have said that Christ has become our rest.

However.... when tradition has set aside a "day" to worship the Lord, such as Easter and Christmas, do you think that as Christians, we should not observe those days?

And what about Sabbath or Sunday worship, which believers from both Messianic and Christian camps set aside each day to worship? Are these wrong as well?

So I am just wondering... is going to church on Sunday setting aside a day that could be construed as returning to the "beggarly elements"?

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I do believe what you have said that Christ has become our rest.

However.... when tradition has set aside a "day" to worship the Lord, such as Easter and Christmas, do you think that as Christians, we should not observe those days?

And what about Sabbath or Sunday worship, which believers from both Messianic and Christian camps set aside each day to worship? Are these wrong as well?

So I am just wondering... is going to church on Sunday setting aside a day that could be construed as returning to the "beggarly elements"?

I believe you should treat them as any other day. Holy unto the Lord.

This is another one of my pet peeves. You can make whatever day your "get together/fellowship worship day". Out of convenience I like Sunday (morning especially). The apostolic churches I know have weekday services also which end at a un-kid friendly time and if you miss them you are quoted Hebrews 10:25.