Why I Am A Futurist

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I see it as this... sin brought death. And as Mizpeh said, dying would only occur if they ate of the forbidden fruit, whether they ate other fruit or not.
The fruit of life corresponds similarly to the lamb slain from the foundation in that it had the remedy of sin and death, which was not required before sin.
Death came by sin. Plain and simple. If physical death was not included, then why is Christ's physical death payment for sin, seeing the soul that sinneth shall surely die?

The Tree of Life did not have the remedy for sin: it was the promise of LIFE!
Had Adam chosen life, the serpent would have lost it's power to deceive and
Eve would not have remained deceived because of Adam. However, Adam
chose to "...listened to the voice of your wife."

Adam had a choice: partake of life, or eat with the woman. Simple.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

The Tree of Life did not have the remedy for sin: it was the promise of LIFE!

It had both.

If Adam sinned and was dying, and God said his eating of the fruit of life would make him live forever, then the fruit had the remedy for dying. God did not create Adam mortal. Adam would live forever, anyway. As Mizpeh said, he'd only die if he ate the forbidden fruit which he did.

The fruit of Life would put God's life into Adam.

Had Adam chosen life, the serpent would have lost it's power to deceive and
Eve would not have remained deceived because of Adam. However, Adam
chose to "...listened to the voice of your wife."

Adam had a choice: partake of life, or eat with the woman. Simple.

Actually, he had life in and of himself which he lost when he sinned. The fruit of Life would put God's life into him. Otherwise he was mortal form the start, and God made him to die.

Jesus is the hope of Life. Did He not have the remedy for sin? Somehow Jesus is the tree of life. It's all connected. Like the fruit from the tree of life gives eternal life, Jesus hanged on the cross and we eat His flesh and drink His blood and have eternal life. There's the river of life and the fruit of life in the Garden and the City. They correspond. Remedy for sin is in them.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It had both.
If Adam sinned and was dying, and God said his eating of the fruit of life would make him live forever, then the fruit had the remedy for dying. God did not create Adam mortal. Adam would live forever, anyway. As Mizpeh said, he'd only die if he ate the forbidden fruit which he did.
The fruit of Life would put God's life into Adam.
Actually, he had life in and of himself which he lost when he sinned. The fruit of Life would put God's life into him. Otherwise he was mortal form the start, and God made him to die.
Jesus is the hope of Life. Did He not have the remedy for sin? Somehow Jesus is the tree of life. It's all connected. Like the fruit from the tree of life gives eternal life, Jesus hanged on the cross and we eat His flesh and drink His blood and have eternal life. There's the river of life and the fruit of life in the Garden and the City. They correspond. Remedy for sin is in them.

Wow! Simply unbelievable coming from you!

The tree of life was not a provision for death: it was a provision for sin! I know, I know. You will say that because sin caused death, it WAS a provision for sin.

Fact: “IF” God had said…but God DID NOT say.
Fact: Mitzveh said…he gave his opinion of his personal logic
Fact: Adam was created…so he did NOT have life in and of himself
Fact: God created Adam with the ability to CHOOSE, not to die!
Fact: “Jesus is the hope of Life” for sinners; of whom Adam became one.
Fact: The Tree of Life is a type and figure of Jesus.
Question: What garden and city?

MORTAL=SUSCEPTIBLE TO DEATH
IMMORTAL=NOT SUSCEPTIBLE TO DEATH
Either Adam WAS created mortal, or he was not created mortal. Because Adam
DIED, that means he WAS created mortal...at least his body was mortal!


The last part of the last paragraph contains much truth.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

You REALLY don't undertstand?

um, i thought i did, yes, but was asking for other povs in order to have a better understanding--and now i suspect that i know nothing!

Originally Posted by thephnxman

It means they began to die until they were dead
Please note that God did NOT say: [U][IF you eat, you will die];[U] rather, "...on
the day that you eat thereof...". God knew they would eat of the forbidden fruit.

I still agree with the last part, and would have agreed to the first, before i read Esaias' latest here! tyvm

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Also, God told Adam the plants were to be his food. Why would God provide plants for his food if he was immortal? Food is to nourish the body to keep it from dying. This alone seems to refute the idea Adam was created immortal.

...and has us creeping slowly closer to--what was that other poster's name, the one with the kinda "new age" idea about A&E?--his conception.

[shazeep]

i am convicted--and have been for a while now--that spiritually dead = dead, as far as God--to Whom physical death is irrelevant--is concerned. i always interpreted dying you will die as "dying spiritually, you will die physically," but E has caused me to see that i will have to come to a better understanding there.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Because Adam
DIED, that means he WAS created mortal...at least his body was mortal!


The last part of the last paragraph contains much truth.

Well, the last part of the paragraph overlooks that Adam was created in God's image, but then chose to disobey God, bringing a sentence upon himself. So, it is a supposition that may be true.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Wow! Simply unbelievable coming from you!

The tree of life was not a provision for death: it was a provision for sin! I know, I know. You will say that because sin caused death, it WAS a provision for sin.

Fact: “IF” God had said…but God DID NOT say.
Fact: Mitzveh said…he gave his opinion of his personal logic
Fact: Adam was created…so he did NOT have life in and of himself
Fact: God created Adam with the ability to CHOOSE, not to die!
Fact: “Jesus is the hope of Life” for sinners; of whom Adam became one.
Fact: The Tree of Life is a type and figure of Jesus.
Question: What garden and city?

MORTAL=SUSCEPTIBLE TO DEATH
IMMORTAL=NOT SUSCEPTIBLE TO DEATH
Either Adam WAS created mortal, or he was not created mortal. Because Adam
DIED, that means he WAS created mortal...at least his body was mortal!


The last part of the last paragraph contains much truth.

Why is it so hard to see that sin brought death and Christ's physical death paid for sin? This thread is really surprising me.

Man lost immortality when he sinned. That is why it says sin brought death.

[mfblume]

Jesus saw spiritual death when He cried why God had forsaken Him, and then physically died. Same Pattern as Adam.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Man lost immortality when he sinned.

um, i thot you had established that Adam in the garden was not immortal, because he ate? Did i miss something?