Why I Am A Futurist

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If they were created immortal, how could they afterwards die? Immortal means "not able to die".

Does not the NT teach the divine pattern is mortal first, immortal second? Natural first, Spiritual second? Earthly first, heavenly second? By saying they were immortal to begin with, does that not violate the pattern?

Is not the tree of life that which cnfers immortality? Hence they were barred from it, because without it they would not live forever?

So were they simply dying quicker by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (TKGE)?
Or did they understand this "death" as a spiritual death/separation from God? or a physical death/separation from the body or both?

But what if the pattern was messed up by the fall? Did God mean for original creation to be what it has become?

I don't see why after they ate of the TKGE that they couldn't have an immortal spirit/soul and a mortal body. If they had eaten of the tree of life then they would have been immortal in body also.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

um, i thot you had established that Adam in the garden was not immortal, because he ate? Did i miss something?

Lol. This is getting confusing.

Let's start again. Adam was created immortal. He ate the forbidden fruit and lost that immortality. He became mortal due to sin. Death in man came by sin ... Death of all forms.

[Sean]

saias Esaias is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist
If they were created immortal, how could they afterwards die? Immortal means "not able to die".

Does not the NT teach the divine pattern is mortal first, immortal second? Natural first, Spiritual second? Earthly first, heavenly second? By saying they were immortal to begin with, does that not violate the pattern?

Is not the tree of life that which cnfers immortality? Hence they were barred from it, because without it they would not live forever?


Clean post.....this is obviously why the angels were posted around the Tree of Life....It gave them the immortality they desperately wanted, but TRADED it away foolishly for a bad tree.
__________________

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

.



If I may...


It does not say specifically that they were forced to eat of the Tree of Life before the fall, but that it was fine to eat of ANY tree(including the Tree of Life), except 1 tree(knowledge of good and evil).

Now after the fall, the ONLY tree that was forbidden to eat became the Tree of Life(the reverse)....Why?....

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:.......

So man could not have access to immortality!

So, if man eats of the bad tree and "dies" on day 1, then it only stands to reason that man would desperately try to get to the good tree that was "legal" to eat before he fell into sin. Man was already FAMILIAR with the properties of the good tree, and that is why God surrounded it with armed angels.

To think that man did not partake of, or was not allowed to partake of the Tree of Life before the fall, is to assume that God had an inaccessible, "useless teaser tree" in the garden just to tease mankind when he finally fell.(that's mental torture to His creation).



Thats like dangling a cancer cure in front of a dying cancer patient and saying....."too bad, you never had access to it anyway"

The reality is Adam and Eve voluntarily gave back the cure to God, then lost access to what they already had.

They traded a good tree for a bad tree when they chose to eat the bad tree. God simply forbid them to eat the good tree anymore because they now had "THE KNOWLEDGE GOOD AND EVIL"

Simply stated, they could not serve God and sin, and neither can we!!!

...

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Why is it so hard to see that sin brought death and Christ's physical death paid for sin? This thread is really surprising me.
Man lost immortality when he sinned. That is why it says sin brought death.

That Jesus paid the price of death for the sin we incurred is a given.

As for the mortality of Adam, well the Lord made a way BEFORE Adam was
created. Adam was created BEFORE the Law of Sin and Death, but AFTER the
Law of Grace.[/U] Therefore, Adam could be judged to be punished because of sin;
but the sins of man could eventually be remitted, if man obeyed!

I'll grant you man's spirit is immortal; his body, however, has always been mortal.

[shazeep]

i have to agree. therefore, some version of

Originally Posted by Antipas

Adam isn't a real man. Man has been evolving on this planet for over 3 billion years. Besides, what justice would there be in condemning an entire species, bringing death, pain, sickness, and horror on the entire species merely on account of one being's sin? What most don't realize is, while Adam isn't a real man and never was, the spiritual reality Adam represents is indeed very real. Adam is a spiritual symbol that represents us all. In Adam, we all sinned. Therefore, in Adam our sin is found. We've all reached for that which God has commanded us not to seek. And for this reason, our innocence was lost. We've all been driven from our Edenic security and safety, the way back guarded by the "angels" of judgment, fear, and condemnation. As a result of our choices we have brought life's troubles upon ourselves. In Adam, we see our individual condemnation. And in Adam, we also see God's grace. Why? Because in the narrative God didn't kill Adam on the very day of Adam's sin as promised. No, instead, God took coats of skins and clothed Adam, and his wife, Eve. This symbolically represents the sacrificial atonement understood by the most primitive of cultures. Something dies in our place paying for our sins, taboos, failures... and ultimately we see this in the story of Jesus. God with us. God suffering with us. God dying with us. And in our identification with the God who is with us, we are set free and realize the eternal life that is God's desire for all.

should be considered

[Sean]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

That Jesus paid the price of death for the sin we incurred is a given.

As for the mortality of Adam, well the Lord made a way BEFORE Adam was
created. Adam was created BEFORE the Law of Sin and Death, but AFTER the
Law of Grace.[/U] Therefore, Adam could be judged to be punished because of sin;
but the sins of man could eventually be remitted, if man obeyed!

I'll grant you man's spirit is immortal; his body, however, has always been mortal.

Good post!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Antipas View Post
Adam isn't a real man. Man has been evolving on this planet for over 3 billion years.







LOL

[shazeep]

ya, don't know about the '3 billion' part--that is not the point. And wadr if your religion makes 'evolving' uncomfortable for you, i understand; just call it 'progressing' or whatever. We have obviously been doing something, as we are in our...5th? dispensation; and God does not change--it is us that has changed. So, try and work with the concepts, and maybe ignore the specific letters, imo. Scoffing will only get you a closed mind.

[Sean]

i dont give much credibility to evolutionists. To me they are not religious material savvy.(red flags to start off not cool)