Why I Am A Futurist - Page 69

shazeep · #**681** 03-07-2015, 11:11 AM

Why do we say "Fall of Adam?" God says "Rise of Adam..."
"For he has become like one of Us..."

mfblume · #**682** 03-07-2015, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

well,
"44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

so to answer your Q, "no."

So, what "changes" and what is the "body" that does change? Resurrection is literally something that once lived, died and lives a second time. What did Paul possess that was alive after he was saved, had yet to die and would live again?

mfblume · #**683** 03-07-2015, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

Why do we say "Fall of Adam?" God says "Rise of Adam..."
"For he has become like one of Us..."

You call it a rise for Adam to receive the knowledge of good and evil, having disobeyed God? Disobedience is a rising?

mfblume · #**684** 03-07-2015, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

well,
"44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

so to answer your Q, "no."

You are aware, are you, that the contrast is natural and spiritual, not physical and spiritual? The same book has spiritual meat and drink in chapter 10, which was very physical, and spiritual and natural believers in chapter 2, which was also very physical people.

Sean · #**685** 03-07-2015, 11:28 AM

I think that Adam and Eve were created MORTAL(but innocent of any sin), and given access to the Tree of Life from the start(to live forever).

After they sinned, they were simply forbidden to access the Tree of Life, consequentially causing them to age.

It just dont take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

shazeep · #**686** 03-07-2015, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

So, what "changes" and what is the "body" that does change? Resurrection is literally something that once lived, died and lives a second time. What did Paul possess that was alive after he was saved, had yet to die and would live again?

ya, good Q; books are written on the subject. We are told Change your mind, so i'll go with "mind;" incidentally, the part that can be observed to change the behavior of photons. We are "beings of light!" hmm.

shazeep · #**687** 03-07-2015, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You call it a rise for Adam to receive the knowledge of good and evil, having disobeyed God? Disobedience is a rising?

Well, how do you reconcile knowledge of good and evil with free will? How can Adam have "sinned," if he lacked this knowledge? I'll have to look up the first occurrence of "Adam sinned," that will be interesting, prolly. I know God says "he has become a god." This is a fall?

What is "On the day you eat of it, you will surely die" to someone who does not know death? What is "die" to him? It is a meaningless concept, until it is experienced.

shazeep · #**688** 03-07-2015, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You are aware, are you, that the contrast is natural and spiritual, not physical and spiritual? The same book has spiritual meat and drink in chapter 10, which was very physical, and spiritual and natural believers in chapter 2, which was also very physical people.

ah, very good point there. another book, lol.

shazeep · #**689** 03-07-2015, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

I think that Adam and Eve were created MORTAL(but innocent of any sin), and given access to the Tree of Life from the start(to live forever).

After they sinned, they were simply forbidden to access the Tree of Life, consequentially causing them to age.

It just dont take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

well, ok...but my takeaway for now is
Don't be so sure about all that stuff you "know." see y'all later, gotta run.

thephnxman · #**690** 03-07-2015, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

So the only mortal thing in Adam was his body, not his soul and spirit. So, what died when Adam sinned? If his soul was immortal did it lose mortality?
Christ's physical death would not be involved if physical death was not a result of sin.

You have have raised a good question. Yes, Adam's spirit (his identity) is
eternal (immortal).

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and (1) breathed into
his nostrils, and (2) man became a living soul." So the question here becomes:
(1) What gave the dust (body) life? (2) is there life in the dust? or can dust move
or operate of its own volition?

It was God's breath that gave the body life, and then the body became a living
soul. Thus...the soul is the life of the body. So when a man dies, the body reverts
back to the dust, and the life (soul) goes back to God. BUT MAN (the spirit)
goes to await the judgment!

The soul is immortal in that it reverts back to God: it is a figure of the Holy
Spirit. If a Christian falls from grace, the Holy Spirit goes back from where
it was sent.