Why was Lucifer in heaven?

[Pressing-On]

We may have discussed this already.

Someone was sharing with me a person of another faith asking her this question, "If heaven is perfection, why was Lucifer there?"

I didn't have an answer, because I don't know.

[Ferd]

Where does the bible say that Heaven "is" perfection...

IF heaven "is" how exactly does that relate to what "was"

Further, Jesus said "I go to prepare a place..." the indication is that at that point...just 2k years ago, that place was not in fact made.

We also know that the NT speaks of a "New Heaven and a New Earth" neither of which existed before God said "let there be light"....

just my random thoughts on the subject. but my initial reaction is that the questioner is under a false impression of what the bible says about heaven to begin with.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Where does the bible say that Heaven "is" perfection...

IF heaven "is" how exactly does that relate to what "was"

Further, Jesus said "I go to prepare a place..." the indication is that at that point...just 2k years ago, that place was not in fact made.

We also know that the NT speaks of a "New Heaven and a New Earth" neither of which existed before God said "let there be light"....

just my random thoughts on the subject. but my initial reaction is that the questioner is under a false impression of what the bible says about heaven to begin with.

Thanks. That is what I told her, in the bold, but I wasn't sure I was right.

I read somewhere that the incident with Lucifer was the actual beginning of sin on the earth, not what happened in the Garden of Eden.

Actually, I am just remembering, the question was that if Lucifer was an angel, and angels are perfect, why was Lucifer in heaven. So, the real question was about angels in heaven that were sinners.

[Pressing-On]

The person, making the comments, was coming from the point of view that there were other worlds and that is probably where Lucifer lived. I told her the person didn't have evidence to support their view, even though being adamant about it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Isaiah 14:4

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Isaiah 14:4

So, God uses real life events to teach a spiritual reality of something that will also take place?

For instance, The King of Babylon is a chief representative of oppressive human power, which could also represent Lucifer.

[Ron]

Lucifer is a created being, an Angel of the highest order of which there are three, (that we know of) Michael, Gabriel, & Lucifer.

Isaiah 14:12:16 states he was in Heaven in the presence of God!
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Ezekiel 28:14-16 states that Lucifer was perfect (sinless) until the day that iniquity (sin) was found in him.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

He also gains access to Heaven as an accuser of the brethren before God as evidenced in Job 1.

[Ron]

What I find most intriguing is this statement, "For thou hast said in thine heart"
It gives new meaning to Jesus words, "as a man (or by inference woman) thinks in their heart, so is he (she)!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

So, God uses real life events to teach a spiritual reality of something that will also take place?

For instance, The King of Babylon is a chief representative of oppressive human power, which could also represent Lucifer.

What is Babylon?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ron

What I find most intriguing is this statement, "For thou hast said in thine heart"
It gives new meaning to Jesus words, "as a man (or by inference woman) thinks in their heart, so is he (she)!