Is supprt for israel really required (V)

[Originalist]

I admire Israel for simply being the more normal nation in the region. But are Christians and Gentile nations required to support Israel? I'm not asking if we should be against Israel, as I do not think we should.. I'm asking if we must support Israel. Can we be neutral?

This video exposes allot of error in Christians circles concerning support for Israel. I am not crazy about the producer, but there is still good food for thought...

[mfblume]

Zionists are people who think Israel has a right to their land without God having anything to do with it. There are religious Zionists who bring God into the picture, but Zionism itself is not religious.

The reason preachers say we ought to support Israel due to Zionist reasons is wrong. They argue that God considers Israel the apple of His eye, when in fact that refers solely to Israel serving God. The New Testament was for Israel and Judah (Jer 31:31), and God led Israel out of the old into the new with only a remnant. But as far as God is concerned, the remnant is the deal. Gentiles were brought into the covenant for the first time (Eph 2) and engrafted onto the Israelite olive tree. So Israel is now New Covenant people in God's eyes.

When Abraham and his seed were given the promises, Paul clearly stated God said SEED singular, and not plural. He said JESUS is that seed. And anyone in Christ is therefore part of the seed and recipients of the promises. So, the promise to be blessed if we bless Abraham's seed, or to be cursed if we curse Abraham's seed, applies to CHRIST. These preachers who claim we ought to bless natural Israel because they are Abraham's seed must be absolutely unaware of Paul's teachings about the promises and the seed. Galatians 4 teaches natural Jews are like ISHMAEL and Christians are like ISAAC, if the natural Jew does not believe in Christ. In other words, the church of Jews and Gentiles are more Israelite than natural Jews that are not saved. Paul even stated that anyone under law is under a curse, meaning Israelites serving God in Judaic Law are not blessed whatsoever (Gal 3:10).

Now, this issue regards the natural nation Israel. Should we support them? I say yes, but not because of spiritual reasons. Not because the Bible says blessing the seed gives us a blessing, -- we're already blessed and WE are the seed if we are in Christ.

But we should support Israel because they're democratic and there are no other democracies in that crazy part of the world.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Zionists are people who think Israel has a right to their land without God having anything to do with it. There are religious Zionists who bring God into the picture, but Zionism itself is not religious.

The reason preachers say we ought to support Israel due to Zionist reasons is wrong. They argue that God considers Israel the apple of His eye, when in fact that refers solely to Israel serving God. The New Testament was for Israel and Judah (Jer 31:31), and God led Israel out of the old into the new with only a remnant. But as far as God is concerned, the remnant is the deal. Gentiles were brought into the covenant for the first time (Eph 2) and engrafted onto the Israelite olive tree. So Israel is now New Covenant people in God's eyes.

When Abraham and his seed were given the promises, Paul clearly stated God said SEED singular, and not plural. He said JESUS is that seed. And anyone in Christ is therefore part of the seed and recipients of the promises. So, the promise to be blessed if we bless Abraham's seed, tor to be cursed if we curse Abraham's seed, applies to CHRIST. These preachers who claim we ought to bless natural Israel because they are Abraham's seed must be absolutely unaware of Paul's teachings about the promises and the seed. Galatians 4 teaches natural Jews are like ISHMAEL and Christians are like ISAAC, if the natural Jew does not believe in Christ. In other words, the church of Jews and Gentiles are more Israelite than natural Jews that are not saved.

Now, this issue regards the natural nation Israel. Should we support them? I say yes, but not because of spiritual reasons. Not because the Bible says blessing the seed gives us a blessing, -- we're already blessed and WE are the seed if we are in Christ.

But we should support Israel because they're democratic and there are no other democracies in that crazy part of the world.

Amen. Good post.

[mfblume]

I wrote a little facbook study on this very issue just over a year ago.

Are We Blessed For Supporting Israel? (Yes, but not because of what you might think!)

Recently a lot of the buzz on the internet, and primarily Facebook, that I have noticed, is speaking about God blessing Canada due to Harper's statement to stand for Israel. I feel to address this issue with the Bible's statements about it.

Yes, Israel should be supported. Mainly, because God does have a special place in his heart for the nation (Rom 11:28). They are beloved for the Israelite fathers' sakes, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Secondly, because they are the only democratic nation in that part of the world.

But most believers point to these words spoken to Abraham to say God will bless us for supporting them:

Gen 12:2-3 KJV And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: (3) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

That cannot be applied to Israel in this instance. Notice the last part of verse 3. All the families of the earth shall be blessed because of Abraham. How was that fulfilled? What does the bible itself say?

Act 3:25-26 KJV Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. (26) Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

The apostles told the Jews that the manner in which God would bless all the nations of the earth is by sending Jesus Christ, His Son, TO THE JEWS, themselves, FIRST. That is how God would not only bless all nations, but first bless the Jews.

And all the nations are now able to be saved from sin by Jesus, and receive all blessings THROUGH CHRIST.

Eph 1:3 KJV Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Notice the last two words IN CHRIST.

So, when God spoke to Abraham about the blessings for those who bless him and the cruses upon those who curse him, God was pointing to JESUS CHRIST as the means. In short, deny Christ and be cursed. Accept Christ and be blessed.

And Paul the apostle really made this plain when he quoted those words to Abraham:

Gal 3:8 KJV And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The GOSPEL was the means by which the nations would be blessed. So, it's not just supporting Israel that brings that blessing, but accepting Christ who came through Abraham's people, Israel, and thereby being blessed.

And the bible says something very enlightening about those people of Israel that do not accept Christ.

Gal 3:9-10 KJV So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. (10) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Anyone who is "of" the works of the Law of the Old Covenant cannot be blessed but instead is beneath a curse!

Gal 3:13-14 KJV Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: (14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The only way the nations can be blessed, is to be redeemed from the curse, not to stop cursing Israel. And that gives nobody a right to curse Israel, though. lol. But the point is that the New Testament explains how we are blessed because of what God said to Abraham ONLY THROUGH SALVATION IN THE GOSPEL, and NOT BY SUPPORTING ISRAEL AS A NATION TODAY.

So, support Israel, but not to be blessed of God. Support Israel because it is democratic and God knows that part of the world needs democracy. But look for for your blessings from Israel by accepting and obeying the Gospel of Jesus through Whom all the nations of the earth WILL BE BLESSED!

Many believers do not know that most of Israel is not even following the Law of Moses nor serving God under Old Testament ways. . And those who are are under the law are under a curse according to the New Testament . Read Gal 3:8-13 again.

Don't let Israel or anything else replace the cross. Through the CROSS we are blessed with Abraham's blessings.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Zionists are people who think Israel has a right to their land without God having anything to do with it. There are religious Zionists who bring God into the picture, but Zionism itself is not religious.

The reason preachers say we ought to support Israel due to Zionist reasons is wrong. They argue that God considers Israel the apple of His eye, when in fact that refers solely to Israel serving God. The New Testament was for Israel and Judah (Jer 31:31), and God led Israel out of the old into the new with only a remnant. But as far as God is concerned, the remnant is the deal. Gentiles were brought into the covenant for the first time (Eph 2) and engrafted onto the Israelite olive tree. So Israel is now New Covenant people in God's eyes.

When Abraham and his seed were given the promises, Paul clearly stated God said SEED singular, and not plural. He said JESUS is that seed. And anyone in Christ is therefore part of the seed and recipients of the promises. So, the promise to be blessed if we bless Abraham's seed, or to be cursed if we curse Abraham's seed, applies to CHRIST. These preachers who claim we ought to bless natural Israel because they are Abraham's seed must be absolutely unaware of Paul's teachings about the promises and the seed. Galatians 4 teaches natural Jews are like ISHMAEL and Christians are like ISAAC, if the natural Jew does not believe in Christ. In other words, the church of Jews and Gentiles are more Israelite than natural Jews that are not saved. Paul even stated that anyone under law is under a curse, meaning Israelites serving God in Judaic Law are not blessed whatsoever (Gal 3:10).

Now, this issue regards the natural nation Israel. Should we support them? I say yes, but not because of spiritual reasons. Not because the Bible says blessing the seed gives us a blessing, -- we're already blessed and WE are the seed if we are in Christ.

But we should support Israel because they're democratic and there are no other democracies in that crazy part of the world.

I believe we should support an ally when the ally breaks rules concerning human rights.

https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/n-af...rael/palestine

What people tend to forget because they see Israel as some sacred cow and therefore unable to be criticise a country which has ignored 66 U.N. Resolutions.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries...n-territories/

Now, this is all political, and that's fine, whatever dog you have in this fight let'em loose. But as Elder Blume has beautifully put, and if I may use my own words to say it, this isn't a Biblical issue but a political one.

If you want to cheer for Modern day Israel or anyone else in the Middle East, I maybe would ask why?

I just want .99 a gallon gas

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Don't let Israel or anything else replace the cross. Through the CROSS we are blessed with Abraham's blessings.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I believe we should support an ally when the ally breaks rules concerning human rights.

https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/n-af...rael/palestine

What people tend to forget because they see Israel as some sacred cow and therefore unable to be criticise a country which has ignored 66 U.N. Resolutions.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries...n-territories/

Now, this is all political, and that's fine, whatever dog you have in this fight let'em loose. But as Elder Blume has beautifully put, and if I may use my own words to say it, this isn't a Biblical issue but a political one.

If you want to cheer for Modern day Israel or anyone else in the Middle East, I maybe would ask why?

I just want .99 a gallon gas

Amen good points. If Israel commits war crimes, that cannot be brushed beneath the carpet as though they're God's people so don't look at that. Being democratic does not excuse any war crimes they commit.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen good points. If Israel commits war crimes, that cannot be brushed beneath the carpet as though they're God's people so don't look at that. Being democratic does not excuse any war crimes they commit.

Amen, and all that is political, being done by a nation trying to do whatever they see fit to keep their power. Just like any other country would try to do if it felt threaten by an opposing force. But as far as they being the same group we find in the Bible for that to be the reason then no. It is not their manifest destiny to keep their property by any means necessary. So, therefore it is not our duty as Christians to blindly follow and support Israel. Pray for them to come to Jesus Christ, and convert.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Amen, and all that is political, being done by a nation trying to do whatever they see fit to keep their power. Just like any other country would try to do if it felt threaten by an opposing force. But as far as they being the same group we find in the Bible for that to be the reason then no. It is not their manifest destiny to keep their property by any means necessary. So, therefore it is not our duty as Christians to blindly follow and support Israel. Pray for them to come to Jesus Christ, and convert.

Agreed.

[Rudy]

Well folks if someone knocked on your door holding the Torah and said, "this book says your property is mine." What would you do?