Are You in an OT Church?

[shazeep]

If you are reading this, quite possibly

[KeptByTheWord]

Hmm... then what is your definition of an OT church?

[Esaias]

There are no OT churches because the old covenant doesn't exist anymore.

It's like asking anyone is a member of the Whig Party.

[shazeep]

well, you say that, but i note you hold to "an eye for an eye," and i am finding that your belief is hardly fringe.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Hmm... then what is your definition of an OT church?

i'm not really sure; i would hazard a guess that most of our churches are. This is a theme that has been developing with me for a while--basically that Christ came 2000 years ago, but we really haven't embraced the NT Church as presented in Acts to this day; except possibly for brief periods in time. Of course, these would be subject to the most vehement of attacks by satan, i guess.

Who can deny that corporately we are fixated on sin, and law? We give lip service to "Laws are made for lawbreakers, moral people do not need laws," you hear a sort of counter-version of it in the gun control argument, "criminals don't care about gun control laws," (which is decisively born out in the stats--the cities with the tightest gun controls seem to have the most gun crime), but many who would call themselves Christian have no problem with the death penalty, or other laws that seem to be in direct conflict with Christ's message.

I'm not trying to cast any blame here; the problem strikes me as near universal. I don't think that we have even really started practicing NT Church. I don't think we have caught up to Christ yet, iow.

[Esaias]

"You hold to an eye for an eye"?

Please explain?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, you say that, but i note you hold to "an eye for an eye," and i am finding that your belief is hardly fringe.i'm not really sure; i would hazard a guess that most of our churches are. This is a theme that has been developing with me for a while--basically that Christ came 2000 years ago, but (1) - we really haven't embraced the NT Church as presented in Acts to this day; except possibly for brief periods in time. Of course, these would be subject to the most vehement of attacks by satan, i guess.
Who can deny that corporately (2) - we are fixated on sin, and law? We give lip service to "Laws are made for lawbreakers, moral people do not need laws," you hear a sort of counter-version of it in the gun control argument, "criminals don't care about gun control laws," (which is decisively born out in the stats--the cities with the tightest gun controls seem to have the most gun crime), but (3) - many who would call themselves Christian have no problem with the death penalty, or other laws that seem to be in direct conflict with Christ's message.
I'm not trying to cast any blame here; the problem strikes me as near universal. (4) - I don't think that we have even really started practicing NT Church. I don't think we have caught up to Christ yet, iow.

There are four points you made that are striking.

(1) I believe you have this backwards. We (the church) HAVE embraced
the NT teachings (which I presume you meant), but we seem to have gotten
AWAY /from them;

(2) To often we DO seem to be fixated on "sin and the Law", when in
reality we should be fixated on the POWER of grace; for He said, "My grace is
sufficient unto you."

(3) again, the death penalty issue is only a symptom of our time. From
the beginning the Lord God has made a difference between "man" and those
He calls "the sons of God". Listen: "Whoso sheds man's blood, by man shall
his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." So God uses "man"
to execute justice/judgment over murderers and thieves, etc. The Church is to
execute mercy and grace!

(4) It's not that we haven't "caught up": it's that we have gotten away from
those things "...which were from the beginning."

"Come, and let us reason together..."

[shazeep]

well, good points. I am led to say that they come from a point of view; one that recognizes a falling away in established churches; when i also witness "emerging" churches attempting, at least, to approach grace--and i see the Spirit moving more among street people, and in other unlikely venues, that were in the past more "new-agey." Weird. I find myself wondering if the Spirit hasn't maybe moved to China or something Azusa St seems like a million years ago, huh.

Originally Posted by Esaias

"You hold to an eye for an eye"?

Please explain?

Oh, the death penalty thing; "All Muslims are lost." those things. Stuff most Christians seem to just assume, i guess.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, good points. I am led to say that they come from a point of view; one that recognizes a falling away in established churches; when i also witness "emerging" churches attempting, at least, to approach grace--and i see the Spirit moving more among street people, and in other unlikely venues, that were in the past more "new-agey." Weird. I find myself wondering if the Spirit hasn't maybe moved to China or something Azusa St seems like a million years ago, huh.
Oh, the death penalty thing; "All Muslims are lost." those things. Stuff most Christians seem to just assume, i guess.

Oh, by the way, did I happen to tell you that all Muslims are really super lost.

[shazeep]

ya, and I'm pretty sure most Christians believed that even back in the glory days; i'm thinking that was really more an illusion, brought on by better times, and less questioning congregations. Dunno. The quote below seems as true now as then.

"So, it's probably my church/life experiences but I don't want to hear feedback. Well, really, I do but I don't trust people to be honest or right. I expect them to try and lord it over and twist the facts to their advantage and that no matter how good I am or what I give that the feedback will be negative. So, I recoil at feedback. I would like to overcome that negative thought process."

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, good points. I am led to say that they come from a point of view; one that recognizes a falling away in established churches; when i also witness "emerging" churches attempting, at least, to approach grace--and i see the Spirit moving more among street people, and in other unlikely venues, that were in the past more "new-agey." Weird. I find myself wondering if the Spirit hasn't maybe moved to China or something Azusa St seems like a million years ago, huh.
Oh, the death penalty thing; "All Muslims are lost." those things. Stuff most Christians seem to just assume, i guess.

You are so confused.

But let me get this straight... you seem to think there are no rules anymore? Crime should not be punished, and it's wrong to have any idea of truth or to recognize anyone one as having or not having truth?

In other words, there are no rules (wouldn't that be a rule?) and there ought not to be any recognition of anything as right or wrong, true or false (isn't that also a rule, and doesn't that imply a recognition of truth and who has it and who doesn't?)...

"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign! Blocking out the scenery, breakin' my mind..."

lol