Your tithes were already paid.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Not to give,
In any offering, anywhere, of any shape, form, or fashion, as unto the lord ever.

Would this be robbing God?

Either you, Rudy or Sean please answer this question.

OFFERING as unto the Lord.

Not tithe.

I did answer it bro!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

No, if there is no person the Lord requires us to give it to, then it is not robbing God.


Now, the only folks that ever received tithes were priests, right?.......

Think for a minute before you say anything.

Priests.....

Who are they according to the N.T. writings?

Right,....You and I!

.

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Sean

No, if there is no person the Lord requires us to give it to, then it is not robbing God.


Now, the only folks that ever received tithes were priests, right?.......

Think for a minute before you say anything.

Priests.....

Who are they according to the N.T. writings?

Right,....You and I!

Ok then,
What were the wages that Paul received?

If Old Testament tithe or offering had been disposed of, why did Paul use the Law to validate his argument to support the New Testament ministry?

If we are not required to give either tithe or offering to support the ministry then how are they supported?

If you say that support is food and raiment do you all give these to your pastors?

Leviticus 19:13
Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.

Deuteronomy 25:4
Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

Jeremiah 22:13
Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness,
and his chambers by wrong;
that useth his neighbour's service without wages,
and giveth him not for his work;

1 Corinthians 9:1-14
Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
Mine answer to them that do examine me is this, Have we not power to eat and to drink? Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of thefruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

2nd Corinthians 11:8
I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.

1 Timothy 5:17,18
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

These are clearly all connected by the apostle.

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Sean

But ye(all saints) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Brother,
God said the same thing about Israel.

Exodus 19:4-7
Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Sean

Now, the only folks that ever received tithes were priestsright?

No,
The Levites received tithes, and all priests were Levites, but not all Levites were priests.

The Levites who were not priests were given various duties in the caretaking of the tabernacle and its furnishings.

But they still received tithe because they were Levites.

Numbers 3:21–26
Of Gershon was the family of the Libnites, and the family of the Shimites: these are the families of the Gershonites. Those that were numbered of them, according to the number of all the males, from a month old and upward, even those that were numbered of them were seven thousand and five hundred. The families of the Gershonites shall pitch behind the tabernacle westward.

And the chief of the house of the father of the Gershonites shall be Eliasaph the son of Lael. And the charge of the sons of Gershon in the tabernacle of the congregation shall be the tabernacle, and thetent, the covering thereof, and the hanging for the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, And the hangings of the court, and the curtain for the door of the court, which is by the tabernacle, and by the altar round about, and the cords of it for all the service thereof.

Numbers 18:24
But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Not to give,
In any offering, anywhere, of any shape, form, or fashion, as unto the lord ever.

Would this be robbing God?

Either you, Rudy or Sean please answer this question.

Rudy, Sean and myself have consistently said that giving in biblical. Never giving, as in the example you cited, would indicate someone is cold towards God and their fellow man. A Spirit led heart is a giving heart by nature as one thinks about others more than themselves.

The ministry should be supported. That is not in question. What is in question is the notion that scripture teached that Christians are required to give 10% of their gross income to the ministry, and neither you or anyone else has proven that to be true.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Brother,
God said the same thing about Israel.

Exodus 19:4-7
Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.

The difference is, the only priesthood found in the NT is that of the believer.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

No,
The Levites received tithes, and all priests were Levites, but not all Levites were priests.

The Levites who were not priests were given various duties in the caretaking of the tabernacle and its furnishings.

But they still received tithe because they were Levites.

Numbers 3:21–26
Of Gershon was the family of the Libnites, and the family of the Shimites: these are the families of the Gershonites. Those that were numbered of them, according to the number of all the males, from a month old and upward, even those that were numbered of them were seven thousand and five hundred. The families of the Gershonites shall pitch behind the tabernacle westward.

And the chief of the house of the father of the Gershonites shall be Eliasaph the son of Lael. And the charge of the sons of Gershon in the tabernacle of the congregation shall be the tabernacle, and thetent, the covering thereof, and the hanging for the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, And the hangings of the court, and the curtain for the door of the court, which is by the tabernacle, and by the altar round about, and the cords of it for all the service thereof.

Numbers 18:24
But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

The levites were considered a priest/tribe from the git go.....Duet 18:1The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi(rest of the families), shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.

Notice, the entire tribe was priestly, and the entire tribe could not own land because of it.

[Sean]

KJV Dictionary Definition: priest

priest

PRIEST, n. L. proestes, a chief, one that presides; proe, before,and sto, to stand, or sisto.

1. A man who officiates in sacred offices. Among pagans, priests were persons whose appropriate business was to offer sacrifices and perform other sacred rites of religion. In primitive ages, the fathers of families, princes and kings were priests. Thus Cain and Abel, Noah, Abraham, Melchizedek,Job, Isaac and Jacob offered their own sacrifices. In the days of Moses, the office of priest was restricted to the tribe of Levi, and the priesthood consisted of three orders, the high priest, the priests, and the Levites, and the office was made hereditary in the family of Aaron.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...HwwgAx4_JJfRCA





2. (2-7) The Levites are God’s chosen helpers for the priests in their ministry at the altar and tabernacle.

“Also bring with you your brethren of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of your father, that they may be joined with you and serve you while you and your sons are with you before the tabernacle of witness. They shall attend to your needs and all the needs of the tabernacle; but they shall not come near the articles of the sanctuary and the altar, lest they die; they and you also. They shall be joined with you and attend to the needs of the tabernacle of meeting, for all the work of the tabernacle; but an outsider shall not come near you. And you shall attend to the duties of the sanctuary and the duties of the altar, that there may be no more wrath on the children of Israel. Behold, I Myself have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel; they are a gift to you, given by the LORD, to do the work of the tabernacle of meeting. Therefore you and your sons with you shall attend to your priesthood for everything at the altar and behind the veil; and you shall serve. I give your priesthood to you as a gift for service, but the outsider who comes near shall be put to death.”

a. Bring with you your brethren of the tribe of Levi: Aaron himself was of the tribe of Levi. While only he and his descendants were given the priesthood, the whole tribe of Levi had a special calling to help Aaron and the priests.

b. That they may be joined with you and serve you: The Levites were the support people for the ministry of the priests. They didn’t have the prominent position, but were important for their behind-the-scenes service.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...MZHsNl0j5WMxVw

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Sean

KJV Dictionary Definition: priest

priest

PRIEST, n. L. proestes, a chief, one that presides; proe, before,and sto, to stand, or sisto.

1. A man who officiates in sacred offices. Among pagans, priests were persons whose appropriate business was to offer sacrifices and perform other sacred rites of religion. In primitive ages, the fathers of families, princes and kings were priests. Thus Cain and Abel, Noah, Abraham, Melchizedek,Job, Isaac and Jacob offered their own sacrifices. In the days of Moses, the office of priest was restricted to the tribe of Levi, and the priesthood consisted of three orders, the high priest, the priests, and the Levites, and the office was made hereditary in the family of Aaron.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...HwwgAx4_JJfRCA

2. (2-7) The Levites are God’s chosen helpers for the priests in their ministry at the altar and tabernacle.

“Also bring with you your brethren of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of your father, that they may be joined with you and serve you while you and your sons are with you before the tabernacle of witness. They shall attend to your needs and all the needs of the tabernacle; but they shall not come near the articles of the sanctuary and the altar, lest they die; they and you also. They shall be joined with you and attend to the needs of the tabernacle of meeting, for all the work of the tabernacle; but an outsider shall not come near you. And you shall attend to the duties of the sanctuary and the duties of the altar, that there may be no more wrath on the children of Israel. Behold, I Myself have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel; they are a gift to you, given by the LORD, to do the work of the tabernacle of meeting. Therefore you and your sons with you shall attend to your priesthood for everything at the altar and behind the veil; and you shall serve. I give your priesthood to you as a gift for service, but the outsider who comes near shall be put to death.”

a. Bring with you your brethren of the tribe of Levi: Aaron himself was of the tribe of Levi. While only he and his descendants were given the priesthood, the whole tribe of Levi had a special calling to help Aaron and the priests.

b. That they may be joined with you and serve you: The Levites were the support people for the ministry of the priests. They didn’t have the prominent position, but were important for their behind-the-scenes service.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...MZHsNl0j5WMxVw

But not all Levites were priests, Sean this is not a debatable issue. Even by this that you have supplied it only proves my point. Not even all the Levites could help the priests.

Numbers 16:9
Seemeth it but a small thing unto you, that the God of Israel hath separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself to do the service of the tabernacle of the Lord, and to stand before the congregation to minister unto them? And he hath brought thee near to him, and all thy brethren the sons of Levi with thee: and seek ye the priesthood also?

There were three family clans within the tribe of Levi. Gershon, Kohath, and Merari but it was only Kohath who supplied the Aaronic priests.