Your tithes were already paid.

[good samaritan]

The NT teaches to support your church ministry. If you spend all of your income on menial things that just bring self satisfaction while only putting a dollar or two in the pan there is something wrong. Tithes or no tithes seeking first the kingdom is probably going to mean more than what many of us sometimes do.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Clearly Chapter 7 is about a better priesthood and I better covenant. It is debated among scholars but if you search it out, you will understand that the apostle Paul was talking about himself in this verse. Receiving tithe. ( here man receive tithe) The other thing that is clear about this verse is that when you give tithe or offering, weather by money or food and arraignment, God receiveth them in heavenly places.( but there he receiveth them)

This is the biggest blunder you've made yet. Paul was not referring about himself receiving tithes. I would laugh if it was not so sad.

“And here (the temple in Jerusalem) men that die (the Levitical priests in Jerusalem)receive tithes; but there(in the days of Abraham) he (Melchizedek) receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.”

Father Perez, I implore you to pray about this. You are simply taking extreme liberties with scripture that are not in proper context.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The NT teaches to support your church ministry. If you spend all of your income on menial things that just bring self satisfaction while only putting a dollar or two in the pan there is something wrong. Tithes or no tithes seeking first the kingdom is probably going to mean more than what many of us sometimes do.

I agree here. If you can afford cable TV but don't give to the work of God in some fashion, there is a problem.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

I'm emphasizing on both fronts for a reason, God's original plan was to have his people reign with him as kings and priests. Remember he came to the Jew first and then we were grafted in because of the hardness of their heart. We became heirs of salvation because of their denial. The spiritual priesthood was all of Israel the literal priesthood was Levite after the order of Aaron. Gods design was to reestablish the priesthood of Melchisedek. So everything we saw in the law was a type and shadow of things to come. The ministry and the Saints but all kings and priests to God.

Hebrews 7:5-17
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest
should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

The argument is made that Abraham and Jacob did not tie continually. But it is nonetheless right to say that they were the first recorded in history to pay a tithe.

Hebrews 7:8
And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Clearly Chapter 7 is about a better priesthood and I better covenant. It is debated among scholars but if you search it out, you will understand that the apostle Paul was talking about himself in this verse. Receiving tithe. ( here man receive tithe) The other thing that is clear about this verse is that when you give tithe or offering, weather by money or food and arraignment, God receiveth them in heavenly places.( but there he receiveth them)

I think you err, on two fronts, with this post.

One: the men "who die" is talking about Levites, as the greater context of the chapter indicates. Note v. 5 "sons of Levi". These "men who die" is contrasted to Melchizedek, or he who has neither "beginning of days, nor end of life".

Two: The Greek text of Hebrews 7:8 does not have an equivalent phrase for "receiveth them" in the second clause. It is supplied by the translators, as is noted by the use of italics in the printed versions of the KJV.

This means the verse should be read as follows:

And here indeed dying men receive tithes. On the other hand, in that place [it is] being testified that he lives on

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/7-8.htm

The context here doesn't really have anything to do with tithing. Rather, it's a contrast between the "sons of Levi" and "Melchizedek". The author is making the case that the Melchizedekian priesthood is greater, and even superior than the priesthood enjoyed by the sons of Levi.

How does he prove his case? By showing that:

One: Melchizedek received tithes from the great patriarch Abraham

Two: That Levi tithed to Melchizedek, through Abraham, being yet unborn

Three: That the sons of Levi all die, but Melchizedek never dies

Four: That the Messiah is a priest after the order of Melchizedek, and not after the order of Levi

Five: That Messiah's Melchizedekian priesthood is likewise greater, and ever superior to the priesthood enjoyed by the sons of Levi

Conclusion: The Jewish believers in Jesus, who, because of persecution and trouble received by their unbelieving countrymen, were on the verge of denying Jesus and returning to the Old Covenant. The Epistle to the Hebrews shows why this is a MONUMENTAL mistake that can't be underscored enough.

To revert to Old Covenant Law and the practices thereof is to crucify the Son of God afresh, and to trample under-foot the holy blood of the New Covenant (and etc.).

Therefore, realize and understand that Levi and his priesthood pales in comparison to Jesus and His priesthood. The tithe system enjoyed by the sons of Levi, along with the rest of the Old Covenant practices surrounding the Levitical priesthood are perished. Indeed, the entirety of the Old Covenant with God was dependent upon the Levitical priesthood.

But since Messiah came, forever a priest after the order of Melchizedek, all of that, both Levitical priesthood and the Old Covenant built around that priesthood, is done away with.

So, don't go back to living under the precepts of the Old Covenant, including tithing to the temple and the sons of Levi, or you risk the curse of being one of them that draw back unto perdition, which is to say, that God will take no pleasure in you (Hebrews 10:38-39). Melchizedek and his priesthood is infinitely better than the priesthood of Levi. So, also, is the Messiah and His priesthood. He is even greater than Moses, who gave to Israel the precepts of the entire Old Covenant, including tithing (See Hebrews 3).

Unless and until the whole letter to the Hebrews is understood in its context, including the purpose of its writing, and who the audience is, and what they were going through when they received the letter, that is, what the current events in their lives were and how the letter addressed them, it's nearly impossible to fully grasp the intent and meaning.

[Rudy]

Bro. J.A. ever thought of being like Paul?



15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Malachi is not talking about you. You are not a priest that was stealing sustenance set aside for the Levites. That is who those remarks were addressing. Your hermeneutics are sorely lacking.

When hermeneutics contradicts the word of God, it is of no use.

It may work in Bible school, but God's ways are not man's ways.

Malachi 3:5
And I will come near to you to judgment;
and I will be a swift witness
against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers,
and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages,....

8,9
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me.
But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee?
In tithes and offerings.
Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me,
even this whole nation

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Bro. J.A. ever thought of being like Paul?



15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

I would rather that I was more like Jesus. I'm working on it.

Rudy, in regard to the Scriptures are you suggesting that the word charge is referring to money?

I'm not following what you're trying to say.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

When hermeneutics contradicts the word of God, it is of no use.

It may work in Bible school, but God's ways are not man's ways.

Malachi 3:5
And I will come near to you to judgment;
and I will be a swift witness
against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers,
and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages,....

8,9
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me.
But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee?
In tithes and offerings.
Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me,
even this whole nation

I can offer ample proof that this was being said to the the priests. It is interesting you emboldened in black the very words that prove my point. But it really does not matter. The tithing system described here is not for us. Do you disagree with that?

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I can offer ample proof that this was being said to the the priests. It is interesting you emboldened in black the very words that prove my point. But it really does not matter. The tithing system described here is not for us. Do you disagree with that?

[COLOR="Red"]Malachi 3:5
And I will come near to you to judgment;
and I will be a swift witness
against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers,
and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages,....

8,9
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me.
But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee?
In tithes and offerings.
Ye are cursed with a curse: for
ye have robbed me,
even this whole nation[/QUOTE]

The way I understand this is ...

Ye are cursed..(who?) even this whole nation.

Why? (Because ye have robbed me)

In this case the laborers that are working and being robbed are the Levites of their 10%, thus robbing God.

That's why there is a blessing if they return.

McLarens expositions Bible commentary ..

Anew paragraph begins with Malachi 3:7, which is not closely connected with the promises preceding. It recurs to the prevailing tone of Malachi, the rebuke of negligence in attending to the legal obligations of worship. That negligence is declared to be a reason for God’s withdrawal from them. But the ‘return,’ which is promised on condition of their renewed obedience, can scarcely be identified with the coming just foretold. That coming was to bring about offerings of righteousness which should be pleasant to the Lord. This section {Malachi 3:7 - Malachi 3:12} promises blessings as results of such offerings, and a ‘return’ of Jehovah to His people contingent upon their return to Him.

Matthew Henry's concise commentary ..

3:7-12 The men of that generation turned away from God, they had not kept his ordinances. God gives them a gracious call. But they said, Wherein shall we return? God notices what returns our hearts make to the calls of his word. It shows great perverseness in sin, when men make afflictions excuses for sin, which are sent to part between them and their sins.

Barnes notes on the whole Bible..

Shall a man rob or cheat - , defraud God? God answers question by question, but thereby drives it home to the sinner's soul, and appeals to his conscience. The conscience is steeled, and answers again, "In what?" God specifies two things only, obvious, patent, which, as being material things, they could not deny. "In tithes and offerings." The offerings included several classes of dues to God:
(a) the first fruits ;

(b) the annual half-shekel Exodus 30:13-15;

(c) the offerings made for the tabernacle Exodus 25:2-3; Exodus 35:5, Exodus 35:21, Exodus 35:24; Exodus 36:3, Exodus 36:6 and the second temple Ezra 8:25 at its first erection; it is used of ordinary offerings;

(d) of the tithes of their own tithes, which the Levites paid to the priests Numbers 18:26, Numbers 18:28-29;

(e) of the portions of the sacrifice which accrued to the priests Leviticus 7:14.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

[COLOR="Red"]Malachi 3:5
And I will come near to you to judgment;
and I will be a swift witness
against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers,
and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages,....

8,9
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me.
But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee?
In tithes and offerings.
Ye are cursed with a curse: for
ye have robbed me,
even this whole nation

The way I understand this is ...

Ye are cursed..(who?) even this whole nation.

Why? (Because ye have robbed me)

In this case the laborers that are working and being robbed are the Levites of their 10%, thus robbing God.

That's why there is a blessing if they return.

McLarens expositions Bible commentary ..

Anew paragraph begins with Malachi 3:7, which is not closely connected with the promises preceding. It recurs to the prevailing tone of Malachi, the rebuke of negligence in attending to the legal obligations of worship. That negligence is declared to be a reason for God’s withdrawal from them. But the ‘return,’ which is promised on condition of their renewed obedience, can scarcely be identified with the coming just foretold. That coming was to bring about offerings of righteousness which should be pleasant to the Lord. This section {Malachi 3:7 - Malachi 3:12} promises blessings as results of such offerings, and a ‘return’ of Jehovah to His people contingent upon their return to Him.

Matthew Henry's concise commentary ..

3:7-12 The men of that generation turned away from God, they had not kept his ordinances. God gives them a gracious call. But they said, Wherein shall we return? God notices what returns our hearts make to the calls of his word. It shows great perverseness in sin, when men make afflictions excuses for sin, which are sent to part between them and their sins.

Barnes notes on the whole Bible..

Shall a man rob or cheat - , defraud God? God answers question by question, but thereby drives it home to the sinner's soul, and appeals to his conscience. The conscience is steeled, and answers again, "In what?" God specifies two things only, obvious, patent, which, as being material things, they could not deny. "In tithes and offerings." The offerings included several classes of dues to God:
(a) the first fruits ;

(b) the annual half-shekel Exodus 30:13-15;

(c) the offerings made for the tabernacle Exodus 25:2-3; Exodus 35:5, Exodus 35:21, Exodus 35:24; Exodus 36:3, Exodus 36:6 and the second temple Ezra 8:25 at its first erection; it is used of ordinary offerings;

(d) of the tithes of their own tithes, which the Levites paid to the priests Numbers 18:26, Numbers 18:28-29;

(e) of the portions of the sacrifice which accrued to the priests Leviticus 7:14.[/QUOTE]

But again, is the tithing system mentioned here in effect today?