I Don't Think God "Creates" Anything Any More

[mizpeh]

As Sean said, God creates us all innocent therefore, no, God does not create sinners! What a wacky doctrine!

[mizpeh]

Jermyn, do you go to a church that teaches Calvinism...TULIP/the doctrines of grace?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

I think God creates children as innocents(with a sin nature, under the Law)), and they become sinners in time.

So, if a child dies, they are held unaccountable for their actions because they cannot mentally realize their sins and a need for a savior.



But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

As Sean said, God creates us all innocent therefore, no, God does not create sinners! What a wacky doctrine!

Yes they are indeed innocent, but they are born with a sin nature, to condemn them as they mature.

[Sean]

If you deny that infants have no sin nature, then you were never, and have never had kids....LOL

[Sean]

Kids generally tell lies and rebel before 2 years old.

[Sean]

Jesus did NOT say this.....


5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a BABY be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.




LOL

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

So no, the doctrine of original sin is bogus.

Too many years of being taught in the doctrine of original sin to be swayed by one person that says it is bogus.

If anyone has any righteousness on their own, then they don't need Christ.

We should kill as many babies as we can so that we can ensure their eternal home with Our Father.

[shazeep]

The doctrine of Original Sin is hideous, as applied. That much is true, imo.

As to the question of whether God creates sinners, understand that the question expresses a perspective of people, and may not be the best question to answer what you really want to know. In the model you are currently struggling with, all sinners who aren't saved are lost and suffer in hell for eternity; and your perspective on these interpretations is likely to evolve as you get older.

Does God create saints? Did God cause you to commit your first sin? So even from a fundamental perspective--which is arguably not the best frame for seeking God's love--your question is pre-loaded, so to speak; and, you might get many answers to it, that you could not prove or disprove anyway.

A popular one, that a more creation centered Christian might adopt, which gets away from the oppressive doctrine of OS model, is that you are created perfect, but in a fallen world. Therefore you inevitably sin because the world is fallen/you have an ego, selfish desires, etc. Disregarding whether hell even exists for the moment--and there is quite a valid debate about that--and other questions as to the exact nature of hell--which no one actually knows, regardless of what they tell you--what is universally accepted is that you have free will, and may seek God, but God does not coerce you to have faith in Him.

If it makes you feel any better, there are interpretations of Scripture wherein Christ's sacrifice covers everyone in the world's sins, and hell becomes Gehenna, and is experienced in a believer's physical lifetime; and no doctorate in theology can prove this to be wrong conclusively using Scripture.

God is love; He is not a tyrant, setting traps to send as many people to hell as He can. Preoccupation with punishment comes from religion, not Scripture. Bear in mind that fundamentalists may be the terrorists of most any society--i just read something to this effect, and it made some good points. I would let the Holy Spirit guide you, and suspect everyone else's information.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Jermyn, do you go to a church that teaches Calvinism...TULIP/the doctrines of grace?

Nope, never have been a member. Born and raised Apostolic and spent most of my adult life so far as Apostolic. The last several years, I have not been Apostolic.