Everybody must have a pastor?

[votivesoul]

At what point should those who are in constant, life long need of a pastor change the word pastor to priest?

Does everybody need a priest? If not, why not? And if not, then how can everybody need a pastor at all times forever? Many pastors today give counsel and receive confession, know everything going on in a person's life, including at times the marriage bed, and even indirectly absolve those who have sinned by telling them God has forgiven them or that they can now be reinstated as members, or into a ministry, or whatever.

It's not much different than a catholic priest, when everything else that might be different is boiled down and away.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Where do y'all get that Peter was Paul's pastor?

Maybe not Peter but maybe John or James. He went to them in Jerusalem for guidance

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Maybe not Peter but maybe John or James. He went to them in Jerusalem for guidance

Paul's concern was for the Church and sound doctrine, not that he needed
guidance. After all, he was the "apostle to the Gentiles".

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

At what point should those who are in constant, life long need of a pastor change the word pastor to priest?

Does everybody need a priest? If not, why not? And if not, then how can everybody need a pastor at all times forever? Many pastors today give counsel and receive confession, know everything going on in a person's life, including at times the marriage bed, and even indirectly absolve those who have sinned by telling them God has forgiven them or that they can now be reinstated as members, or into a ministry, or whatever.

It's not much different than a catholic priest, when everything else that might be different is boiled down and away.

amen!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by CC1

The Bible is not specific regarding a lot of aspects of church government. I don't think the bible advocates or prohibits plural equal leadership. However I do believe that common sense and human nature precludes it from being successful the vast majority of the time.

Nature does not have many if any two headed animals. I believe in checks and balances and no one person should have unchecked power and no accountability. However at the end of the day I believe that leadership in any endeavor only works with one person being the primary leader. We don't hve Co Presidents of the United States nor do countries with a parlimentarian form of government have Co Prime Ministers. There is a reason for that. The reason is that it will not work. Are there exceptions? Of cousre just as there is with most things.

If you want to dabble in co equal plural leadership I say go for it. Hope it works for you. Not for me though and certainly not something the bible calls for.

Since when was the church supposed to operate like the rest of the world government systems? See, that is the kind of reasoning that people use to prop up a pastor/priest idea.

God gave gifts to the church, there were 5 gifts of governing ministry, not one. Jesus is the head, and all ministry submits to Christ. Pretty simple.

Yet, the dictatorship idea continues, because man really wants a kingdom to be built, his kingdom, and not God's. Jesus came to change the way ministry operates, and it was never designed to be a one-man show.

Remember, there were five gifts of ministry given, not one! And Christ the head over all.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Since when was the church supposed to operate like the rest of the world government systems? See, that is the kind of reasoning that people use to prop up a pastor/priest idea.

God gave gifts to the church, there were 5 gifts of governing ministry, not one. Jesus is the head, and all ministry submits to Christ. Pretty simple.

Yet, the dictatorship idea continues, because man really wants a kingdom to be built, his kingdom, and not God's. Jesus came to change the way ministry operates, and it was never designed to be a one-man show.

Remember, there were five gifts of ministry given, not one! And Christ the head over all.

yup! And i suggest that our definition of "church" is not God's, for these reasons. The Church is alive and well, and probably not what you think it is.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Yet, the dictatorship idea continues, because man really wants a kingdom to be built, his kingdom, and not God's. Jesus came to change the way ministry operates, and it was never designed to be a one-man show.

Remember, there were five gifts of ministry given, not one! And Christ the head over all.

The part I bolded shows how you present a false conundrum. Having a pastor vs plural equal pastors does not mean the single pastor is a dictator.

You are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Just because there are some bad apples out there who are dictatorial you want to replace them with a two headed monster than in most instances will not work.

As I said you are welcome to engage in whatever form of church government you like but don't act like it is some kind of biblical imperative that we all join your lunacy.

[YounginHope]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yup! And i suggest that our definition of "church" is not God's, for these reasons. The Church is alive and well, and probably not what you think it is.

Yes!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Maybe not Peter but maybe John or James. He went to them in Jerusalem for guidance

So, a pastor then is simply someone you go to for. guidance? So if I seek guidance from a guy 500 miles away once every, say... 15 years, they are my pastor?

And, where did Paul seek guidance from James or John? He was SENT by the church to inquire about a matter of doctrine that was affecting the entire church. And the whole church came to a conclusion theocratically, not pastorally.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That is taken out of context! A human church member as an elder is a covering of the Spirit of God.

If that were the case, how come Moses told people on God's side to come to him, when the people worshiped the golden calf?? Why did Jesus honour the faith of the centurion who said BECAUSE he was a man under authority he himself had authority?

Mat 8:9-10 KJV For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. (10) When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

The whole principle was perfect in the kingdom.

Why did Paul submit to the apostles when he first received revelation to get their right hand of fellowship?

I don't think the verse means what you think it means.

We aren't to think that because the roman soldier was a man under authority that it somehow granted him exceptional faith.

Rather, because he was a man under authority, he realized in the same way, the sickness afflicting his servant was under the authority of Christ, and in the same way he could give an order to an underling and expect it to be obeyed, the sickness could receive but an order from Christ, without any other demonstration, and it--the sickness--should obey the Lord.

This is what caused Jesus to marvel at the man's faith. Here a un-covenated pagan understood the Messianic authority over sickness better than the people of God who had been promised a Messiah with power over sickness and disease.