Numerical Growth Is Not A Sign Of Revival...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Did Phillip forget to tell this to the Ethiopian eunuch?

Nope. When we look at the message of the gospel, when we look at the concept of conversion presented throughout the book of Acts, when we look at the theology and doctrine presented in the epistles concerning the subject, we see that people understood being baptised in the name of the Lord meant becoming a DISCIPLE of the Lord Jesus. There simply was no concept possible of a 'disciple who was not part of the fellowship', it would have been a contradiction in terms.

In addition, considering the errors that have swept into Christendom along with the false concepts of 'salvation' (as if it was all about getting one's own hide to heaven instead being made part of a KINGDOM, a Divine Household and the FAMILY of God) it appears to me that such an approach is needed desperately.

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You seem... perturbed?

This is wrong on so many levels I don't know what to say

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by allstate1

This is wrong on so many levels I don't know what to say

Start at the beginning, and explain what is wrong? Do you think people should NOT have it explained to them that baptism is not punching a ticket for heaven, but is far more, and includes a commitment to be a part of the Kingdom of God?

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Start at the beginning, and explain what is wrong? Do you think people should NOT have it explained to them that baptism is not punching a ticket for heaven, but is far more, and includes a commitment to be a part of the Kingdom of God?

No I do not! I believe Acts 2:38 punches your ticket to Heaven!! ( Not gonna argue about tongues being the sign of receiving the gift.) The question was asked, what must we do to be saved?, and you know what Peter said. He did not add any theology requirements. If you add any other requirements to salvation you need to study up on what happened at Calvary when Jesus died for your sins!!

[shazeep]

The question was actually subtly different;

“Brothers, what shall we do?”

and the "saved" part comes later:

40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”

So one could ask why, if Acts 2:38 was sufficient, have any more words?
(ignoring for now that both repent and be baptized surely have different meanings for you now; demonstrably so)

This presents the truly bloodless salvation; one without suffering. How far from some Prosperity Gospel can one "converted" in this fashion be?

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by shazeep

The question was actually subtly different;

“Brothers, what shall we do?”

and the "saved" part comes later:

40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”

So one could ask why, if Acts 2:38 was sufficient, have any more words?
(ignoring for now that both repent and be baptized surely have different meanings for you now; demonstrably so)

Not sure if I understand your point.

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Start at the beginning, and explain what is wrong? Do you think people should NOT have it explained to them that baptism is not punching a ticket for heaven, but is far more, and includes a commitment to be a part of the Kingdom of God?

I guess I need to understand what you consider salvation. If you believe baptism is a necessity then your idea of having someone understand the concept of commitment or the kingdom and a commitment to the kingdom before baptism is putting the cart before the horse. Not to mention the millions of ideas and different beliefs of what commitment to the Kingdom is! If you wait for a full understanding or proof of such commitment one may never get baptized.

[shazeep]

i would say that if you read the rest of Scripture without a blindfold, commitment to the Kingdom is all that matters! We certainly have an abundance of Passages that indicate this.

Originally Posted by allstate1

Not sure if I understand your point.

well, i edited at the bottom there, which may explain, but a central point is that Acts 2:38 never mentions salvation, and, like tacking on with the evidence of speaking in tongues, it may be demonstrated that one's understanding must be subtly manipulated in order to accept that Acts 2:38 is all one needs to attain heaven. What did you "repent" of? Surely not what they repented of; the description for them is

41Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

The Fellowship of the Believers

42They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

So i guess my point might be that if Acts 2:38 is all one needs, then was Constantine "saved," with his deathbed pronouncement and baptism? Why not just wait until one is old and dying?

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i would say that if you read the rest of Scripture without a blindfold, commitment to the Kingdom is all that matters! We certainly have an abundance of Passages that indicate this.
well, i edited at the bottom there, which may explain, but a central point is that Acts 2:38 never mentions salvation, and, like tacking on with the evidence of speaking in tongues, it may be demonstrated that one's understanding must be subtly manipulated in order to accept that Acts 2:38 is all one needs to attain heaven. What did you "repent" of? Surely not what they repented of; the description for them is

41Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

The Fellowship of the Believers

42They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

Well if verse 42 to 47 is commitment to the Kingdom and such commitment is what one needs for salvation we are all doomed! However who are the people mentioned in the last part of 47?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by allstate1

Well if verse 42 to 47 is commitment to the Kingdom and such commitment is what one needs for salvation we are all doomed! However who are the people mentioned in the last part of 47?

Well, i don't know that we would have to exactly duplicate that passage, i think that was for then, but the passage indicates the frame of mind of the new believers, and more importantly, perhaps, the community that existed for them to be nurtured in at repentance (which is not salvation).

Also, you do not know if there are not believers exhibiting this type of community today! So while i might agree that surely most of those who believe their ticket has somehow been punched--in defiance of much other Scripture that would indicate otherwise--are doomed, with God all things are possible. Such commitment is what one needs for salvation; thus "Count the cost."

Let's be honest; if "doing" Acts 2:38 will "save" you, then you can do it on your deathbed, right?

As to those "people," I'm not getting the point? I'd say the citizens of the town, but I'm guessing.