Numerical Growth Is Not A Sign Of Revival... - Page 5

shazeep · #41 01-20-2016, 08:02 AM

Repentance for us now means quit smoking, and has nothing to do with Love your enemies anymore. New converts never even have to get off the fence now.

Evang.Benincasa · #42 01-20-2016, 08:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

He knew about growth!

Esaias · #43 01-20-2016, 08:21 AM

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Originally Posted by allstate1

I guess I need to understand what you consider salvation. If you believe baptism is a necessity then your idea of having someone understand the concept of commitment or the kingdom and a commitment to the kingdom before baptism is putting the cart before the horse. Not to mention the millions of ideas and different beliefs of what commitment to the Kingdom is! If you wait for a full understanding or proof of such commitment one may never get baptized.

So you believe one can be saved, and yet not be a disciple of Jesus? You believe also one can be saved, and not be a member of the church? Help me understand this, because what I originally stated seems so self evident to me I am honestly surprised at your surprise.

allstate1 · #44 01-20-2016, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

Well, i don't know that we would have to exactly duplicate that passage, i think that was for then, but the passage indicates the frame of mind of the new believers, and more importantly, perhaps, the community that existed for them to be nurtured in at repentance (which is not salvation).

Also, you do not know if there are not believers exhibiting this type of community today! So while i might agree that surely most of those who believe their ticket has somehow been punched--in defiance of much other Scripture that would indicate otherwise--are doomed, with God all things are possible. Such commitment is what one needs for salvation; thus "Count the cost."

Let's be honest; if "doing" Acts 2:38 will "save" you, then you can do it on your deathbed, right?

As to those "people," I'm not getting the point? I'd say the citizens of the town, but I'm guessing.

Verse 47 And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. How were these being saved??

allstate1 · #45 01-20-2016, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

So you believe one can be saved, and yet not be a disciple of Jesus? You believe also one can be saved, and not be a member of the church? Help me understand this, because what I originally stated seems so self evident to me I am honestly surprised at your surprise.

Would depend on your definition of Disciple. Also your definition of the church.

Esaias · #46 01-20-2016, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allstate1

Would depend on your definition of Disciple. Also your definition of the church.

Disciple - student or follower of Jesus.
Church - the people called out from among the world, gathered together into relationship with Christ, ie the people of God, ie the followers or disciples of Jesus.

shazeep · #47 01-20-2016, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allstate1

Verse 47 And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. How were these being saved??

well, we obviously differ there, but even more to the point might be why they were still called "being saved," and not considered "those who had been saved," or "who were saved." And i suggest that you cannot find a passage that describes salvation in the manner that is presented by the church, as having happened at a certain, past time; not anywhere in the Bible. Yes, you can find some phrasings that can be read that way, but i suggest that this is wishful thinking, and not supported by the body of Scripture.

So my reply is that they had a more evident example of commitment to the Kingdom, and what that entailed in the way of changing their minds. They left Jewish society completely. And it should be noted that they did not have Acts 2:38 yet. Constantine did Acts 2:38, egotistically, without changing his mind.

allstate1 · #48 01-20-2016, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Disciple - student or follower of Jesus.
Church - the people called out from among the world, gathered together into relationship with Christ, ie the people of God, ie the followers or disciples of Jesus.

I believe one is saved with repentance and baptism receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Sure one needs to be a follower of Jesus Christ. However ones degree of understanding, commitment, participation etc. will vary from another. This does not mean one is saved the other is not. I believe one can sit on a church pew for years never be "active" and is still saved. I believe one can be involved in everything in a local assembly let a few cuss words slip at work and they are also saved. I also believe these same people can be "lost". I believe one can be trying their best to kick nicotine and still be saved. The difference being who ask for forgiveness. Salvation does not and cannot depend on our human capability of remaining sin free. The Blood of Jesus Christ washes us white as snow. A works based salvation completely abolishes what happened at Calvary!

allstate1 · #49 01-20-2016, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, we obviously differ there, but even more to the point might be why they were still called "being saved," and not considered "those who had been saved," or "who were saved." And i suggest that you cannot find a passage that describes salvation in the manner that is presented by the church, as having happened at a certain, past time; not anywhere in the Bible. Yes, you can find some phrasings that can be read that way, but i suggest that this is wishful thinking, and not supported by the body of Scripture.

So my reply is that they had a more evident example of commitment to the Kingdom, and what that entailed in the way of changing their minds. They left Jewish society completely. And it should be noted that they did not have Acts 2:38 yet. Constantine did Acts 2:38, egotistically, without changing his mind.

SO if one passes away in your idea of a process of being saved what happens to them?

KeptByTheWord · #50 01-20-2016, 09:19 AM

I think this scripture in Acts lets us know that the steps to salvation may be one step for some, but for others multiple steps. Did you hear all the fullness of the gospel at one time, or just bits and pieces?

Acts 19:1-7 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.