Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge - Page 25

Disciple4life · #**241** 08-09-2014, 11:05 AM

Does anybody know how to get-

Joseph Howell's FSU dissertation “People of the Name”?

derAlte · #**242** 10-07-2014, 12:36 PM

I'm just finishing the book...I was acquainted with so many of the people mentioned and have fond memories of most of them. C.H. Yadon preached at our church back when I sat behind Columbus in the third grade. My impression was that Elder Yadon was a kindly, decent gentleman and I thoroughly enjoyed the wisdom that he shared and making his acquaintance. We never had a clue that he wasn't a three-step guy. I loved the Yadon quote that Dr. Fudge mentions in his book...too many preachers are trying to get a dollar's worth of shout out of a nickel's worth of truth. True, that!

derAlte · #**243** 10-07-2014, 12:50 PM

One thing that I think is neglected by Fudge is the source of the worldview of the so-called "missionary" pastors from other parts of the country who moved to the Northwest. Their tradition & world-view was different from that of the PCI men of the Great Northwest but I think it would have made the book better if Fudge had evenly chronicled the spiritual and intellectual roots of men like Barry King and Paul Dugas and why these were in such conflict with the PCI men. The PAJC tradition is presented as monolithic and the men that believed it as the villains. Barry King (as well as David Johnson) spent their formative years in Oklahoma attending Apostolic College that was founded and operated by C.P. Williams. This school had an influence on the United Pentecostal Church that was significant but seems unknown to present generations. I'd like to know what C.P. Williams' worldview was and how much of it was imbibed by his many students.

Steve Epley · #**244** 10-07-2014, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derAlte

One thing that I think is neglected by Fudge is the source of the worldview of the so-called "missionary" pastors from other parts of the country who moved to the Northwest. Their tradition & world-view was different from that of the PCI men of the Great Northwest but I think it would have made the book better if Fudge had evenly chronicled the spiritual and intellectual roots of men like Barry King and Paul Dugas and why these were in such conflict with the PCI men. The PAJC tradition is presented as monolithic and the men that believed it as the villains. Barry King (as well as David Johnson) spent their formative years in Oklahoma attending Apostolic College that was founded and operated by C.P. Williams. This school had an influence on the United Pentecostal Church that was significant but seems unknown to present generations. I'd like to know what C.P. Williams' worldview was and how much of it was imbibed by his many students.

Elder C. P. Williams was a strong new birth man. That was strongly taught at the College.

returnman · #**245** 02-19-2016, 07:23 AM

Old thread. I am wrapping up this book and apologize if this opens up a wound with anyone. Found it to be informative although I was already somewhat familiar with the situation from an outsider perspective. The thing I find hard to fathom as portrayed in the book is that Fisher went back to the NW with the idea that it was still deeply rooted in PCI influence and that his teaching would be accepted as such. As if his influence was not deliberate or intentional. I know the writer gives room that his actions where intentional. As a minister in the UPC he had to know all to well what he was getting into. The "missionaries" had been coming from CA and the south since the early 70's.

Disciple4life · #**246** 02-19-2016, 12:10 PM

It is my opinion that,

Fisher thought that he had enough like minded people to start the wheels of reformation.

Kind of like Martin Luther.
From what I understand Martin Luther never wanted to leave the Catholic Church.

Scott Pitta · #**247** 02-19-2016, 02:37 PM

Several stories from the early years of Pentecost need to be told. The history of the2 Bible Colleges down South need to be written.

The small Bible schools in the west have their own story and understanding their relationship with each other is something I am exploring. They were located in Caldwell, Idaho; and in Oakland, Stockton and Fresno, California.

None of them survived WW2. Understanding their contribution to the Oneness movement is worthy of evaluation.

Pick a topic, do the research and publish a book.

returnman · #**248** 02-19-2016, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Several stories from the early years of Pentecost need to be told. The history of the2 Bible Colleges down South need to be written.

The small Bible schools in the west have their own story and understanding their relationship with each other is something I am exploring. They were located in Caldwell, Idaho; and in Oakland, Stockton and Fresno, California.

None of them survived WW2. Understanding their contribution to the Oneness movement is worthy of evaluation.

Pick a topic, do the research and publish a book.

That would be a challenge. Especially the one in Oakland since most folks are probably dead. Take that back. All have to be gone.

Scott Pitta · #**249** 02-19-2016, 03:31 PM

I have interviewed former students, so they are not all dead.

I am mostly done exploring the relationship between the prewar Bible schools in California. I have not been able to gather enough data to write about the Bible school in Caldwell, Idaho.

Madison Tatman, the Cyclone evangelist, was a ministry friend of Harry Morse. Considerable work was done on his biography this week.

Be patient with writers of biographies !!

Godsdrummer · #**250** 02-20-2016, 08:58 AM

I have to say this was and is a interesting thread, I did not start coming into the lounge until a few years ago, stayed in the debate section most of the time.

I was born and raised in the state of Washington, spent most of that time in the church in the Tri Cities Kennewick which for several years was the only church in the Tri Cities. Tommy Odaniel was out of our church and I am personal friends with the Odaniel family. When I was 9 we moved to Portland and attended the Sponslers church. Then moved to Pendleton OR. while the Rutzens were still pastors. Not sure the salvational stand was of these two pastors, but I know that both did not teach the standards as they were taught in Kennewick under the Hurst. Which is funny because in Washington state the Hurst were looked on as liberal.

At my age, not knowing all the ins and outs of three steppers, verses one steppers, it was liberals verses hard liners. Being raised a three stepper, it was only in the last few years that I changed from that to a one stepper. To find out a year later there were many that believed and taught that from the start of the UPCI.

All that to say, those that were of the PCI mind set, were far gentler in spirit than three steppers. That spoke volumes to me. Speaking from my own personal experience being in the ministry for 20 plus years in Washington. I can see how Fisher might have thought he had enough support to bring in a reform. Had the control of the college been in Washington instead of Oregon. But by the time of the move to Washington it was too late.