Obsessed with Church

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by shazeep

because, as we can witness, the body of Christ has been defined for us

no, it is worse, without meaning to be. This sets up a false sense of salvation, and an "us" and a "them," that i don't believe Christ intended. Yes, there are surely some members of the body of Christ at any local assembly, don't get me wrong; but we have usurped the definition of "church" when we have to go somewhere to experience it. The body of Christ becomes those members approved by men, that agree with us in their beliefs; anyone who believes differently is "lost," and needs help.

As Allstate reflects, our communities have been systematically shattered, and we are a nation of strangers now. Our false "standard of living" allows us to function alone, and lack of community makes this preferable for many. While engaging with a local congregation can certainly alleviate some of this pain, imo it too often becomes a substitute for real fruit, which our current, failed church model often encourages.

i don't mean to say that going to "church" is bad; i go to church. Specifically to interact with people who would prolly not agree with this post, and thank God for them. But i would examine this "i'm going to church, where the 'saved' people are, to demonstrate my love for God; because actually serving God is a huge pain."

It is as much a ship in a harbor as Allstate's retreat, in many regards. And don't get me wrong, i'm the worst of us prolly; i go to "church," or i isolate; but neither of these is a ship at sea, where we are told to be. You are not serving God by hanging out with a bunch of people reinforcing the same inbred ideas that brought you to this mental state, hearing the foundation laid over and over, and singing songs about how awesome things will be someday, imo.

well said.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Have you ever considered the people you could of helped when opting out of church. I do think the service style set up of our gatherings can become ritualistic and empty, but they don't have to be. You get what you put in to it. If you come to church to have the Lord to knock you out of the pew and into some supernatural experience then it probably will never happen. If you come to rejoice with others about the God of your salvation, to be taught and admonished from the scripture, to receive christian fellowship with other believers on the same journey as yourself then that would be reason for me to go.

I was forced to go to church as a child by a parent who had very little fruit of the Spirit. I could tell some horror stories, but I feel it would not edify anything. I backslid as a young teen with a chip on my shoulder that everyone in church are hypocrites. I felt like you, that a person is o.k. all by there self. The only thing is it didn't go that well for me. I filled the place of church fellowship with friends who were not christian. Gradually things got worse. I went from being active in the church to drinking and doing drugs with friends. Needless to say I almost lost my life spiritually and naturally.

I have come to realize that church attendance is necessary not because of an attendance record, but because it is who I am. I am a part of the church. I am fastened together with other imperfect humans like myself that receive encouragement and strength through our fellowship and exhortation every time I go. I even get some strengthening on this forum by debating and reading debates. The dialogue we have here will strengthen our walk with God if we will let it. We should have dialogue in the church as well.

A thing I do see in the church is there is hypocrisy in it many times. We draw out a cookie cutter walk with God that everyone must be. Many times people conform to things without personal convictions of their own. They become part of the machine, but their fear of ever standing out causes them to not function as a part of the body that they are designed to be in the body.

We should never live our lives out of traditions of men, but we should develop our own personal convictions that are built upon the scriptures and the Holy Ghost's direction. The question of when is it o.k. to miss church is not a black and white answer for me. It is a salvation issue for a person to loose their desire for body connection. Shall the hand say to the foot I have no need of you. It doesn't work that way. If you are saying that you have all the ingredients of the church rolled up into one person yourself you are incorrect. We need one another.

Give a local church fellowship another chance I will be praying for you Allstate. I don't doubt your sincerity or your love for God. You obviously have given this subject much thought and that shows that it is important to you. Part of the church is missing when you withhold your part from its fellowship.

Nice GS. I would say give being a Big Brother, or even walking a pound dog a chance, and don't withhold your part from the community around you, where you can actually manifest Christ; but that's me.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

because, as we can witness, the body of Christ has been defined for us

no, it is worse, without meaning to be. This sets up a false sense of salvation, and an "us" and a "them," that i don't believe Christ intended. Yes, there are surely some members of the body of Christ at any local assembly, don't get me wrong; but we have usurped the definition of "church" when we have to go somewhere to experience it. The body of Christ becomes those members approved by men, that agree with us in their beliefs; anyone who believes differently is "lost," and needs help.

As Allstate reflects, our communities have been systematically shattered, and we are a nation of strangers now. Our false "standard of living" allows us to function alone, and lack of community makes this preferable for many. While engaging with a local congregation can certainly alleviate some of this pain, imo it too often becomes a substitute for real fruit, which our current, failed church model often encourages.

i don't mean to say that going to "church" is bad; i go to church. Specifically to interact with people who would prolly not agree with this post, and thank God for them. But i would examine this "i'm going to church, where the 'saved' people are, to demonstrate my love for God; because actually serving God is a huge pain."

It is as much a ship in a harbor as Allstate's retreat, in many regards. And don't get me wrong, i'm the worst of us prolly; i go to "church," or i isolate; but neither of these is a ship at sea, where we are told to be. You are not serving God by hanging out with a bunch of people reinforcing the same inbred ideas that brought you to this mental state, hearing the foundation laid over and over, and singing songs about how awesome things will be someday, imo.

Must be pretty cool to be ordained by God to correct all us dumb Christians, eh?

I'm surprised there's enough O2 up there at the top of your ivory tower.

[shazeep]

oh, i'm as conflicted as anyone, i'm sure. Obviously it is impossible to generalize about this specific person, even if she rings bells as a type. Going to church sick is surely better than going to a bar sick. This "don't come near me, because i'll get sick, too" is ridiculous anyway; you don't get sick being around someone else who is sick--you get sick because your immunity is poor, or more likely shattered.

Obviously more church does not make less sickness; but this is at odds with Scripture, right? If she was embarrassed to go to church sick we would have variable opinions on that, too. Takes a certain amount of humility to go to church sick imo.

As far as my delivery, you are surely right there
don't know if i should write "imo" a lot more often or what; i've tried a few different things.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Nice GS. I would say give being a Big Brother, or even walking a pound dog a chance, and don't withhold your part from the community around you, where you can actually manifest Christ; but that's me.

I am a dog catcher in my town. Is that why you said this statement? BTW, I sometimes do walk the pound dogs. lol. I certainly agree about our Christianity outside of the local church.

[shazeep]

no i wasn't aware of your job; it's just something i find fulfilling also. Dogs are so appreciative