IHOP - an eyewitness account

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Yes, however, when people speak in tongues (myself, for example) unless it's a message for the church we usually try not to 'be heard'. After all, Paul said if one has not the interpretation and there is no interpreter, then let the tongue-speaker 'keep silent and speak to God'. The recordings I put online are only a part of what is recorded each sabbath. I usually do not put our prayers online because I don't really think that's appropriate under most circumstances - that is to say, I am not too interested in 'hey, listen to us pray, aren't we spiritual?'.

Speaking in tongues, unless is an interpreted message for the church, is according to the apostle private prayer between the individual and God. It does occur in our meetings, we do not however emphasise it (unless someone was getting the Holy Ghost, or someone was bringing a message to the church).

Also, keep in mind the only recording equipment we use is a cell phone. I have noticed that if there is a din of people praying or worshipping some people simply cannot be heard on the recording due to the mic quality.

There have been some serious 'altar service' times that will never be put online, because, again, I do not see much value in public broadcasting of prayers. But short answer, yes, we do speak in tongues - although I would also say the incidence of speaking in tongues is far greater in individual prayer times than in corporate meetings.

I myself, if tongues start coming forth in my prayer or worship, will intentionally quiet down so as not to be heard unless I know the Lord is giving a message to the church.

I agree perfectly. This is not taught enough, but Paul distinctly related that in 1 Cor 14.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree perfectly. This is not taught enough, but Paul distinctly related that in 1 Cor 14.

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
(1 Corinthians 12:4-11)

Speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues is last on the list. It's far more edifying and useful when the Spirit of God gives words of knowledge and wisdom, faith, miracles, healings, prophesying, discernment, etc than if everybody is just speaking in tongues. I do not denigrate tongues at all (I am after all thoroughly Pentecostal in experience and belief!) but again, it's at the bottom of the list, not the top.

I also notice Paul says it is the Spirit of God doing these things, dividing to who he will as he wills. We can want to hear tongues all day long, but if God has something else in mind, we better get on board with his program.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

In a way Bro they are more balanced than many. In that they teach a love relationship with Jesus. Deep intimacy. Praying for hours. Praying in the Spirit for hours.

Much of their "ministry" is witnessing on the streets and to the downtrodden something hardly ANY CHURCHES do.

And they are one of the ONLY Churches I have known of that teach the fear of God. They even make songs about his judgment which I dont remember any Church doing.

Dont forget the "interns" are actually a small part of the Church as a whole.

If judged strictly by the word on all points they fall short. As do the rest of the Churches I know of.

I hear you, and if some of the above is part of what they, as a whole, are doing, then the Lord be with them and make them great. My comments only come from what I've so far seen and/or read, plus some videos or recordings on youtube. I suppose there could be a lot more to IHOP than the amount of things I've looked into.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I was jk.

[Esaias]

Paul Washer on modern 'worship':

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Reminds me of an old song... 'Zion, O Zion, What's The Matter Now? You used to get drunk in the Holy Ghost, but what's the matter now? Zion, O Zion, oh what's the matter now?'

I've heard and sung that song myself, many, many years ago!

What a flashback!

[Jermyn Davidson]

There was a time, several years ago mow, the IHOP folks were being accused of being too sensational, too exuberant and emotional in their meetings and worship.

There were people who were once associated with Oneness Pentecostals that were part of their organizational leadership.

I have a recording from IHOP-KC where there is a guy praying and it seems that he was praying for the entire organization to see the truth of water baptism in Jesus Name.

If I can find that cd, I will see if I can find a way to post it.

Indeed IHOP was once harshly criticized as bring too emotional.

[Michael The Disciple]

Jeremy said:

I have a recording from IHOP-KC where there is a guy praying and it seems that he was praying for the entire organization to see the truth of water baptism in Jesus Name.

I have personally seen Wes Hall preach Acts 2:38 as the plan of salvation there twice. He just left IHOP to minister to a Church in Germany.

I have also seen their Minister of evangelism baptize more than one person into the name of Jesus. He reminded the people IHOP isnt Heaven and Mike Bickle isnt God.

[Michael The Disciple]

Esaias

How do you reconcile the idea that the people who don't actually know who Jesus is and who have NOT experienced new testament Bible salvation have such a moving, powerful 'anointing' of the 'presence of God', whereas the people who DO know who Jesus is, who do know the Bible plan of salvation and are preaching it, have no presence of God that you can discern?

If you dont think Trinitarians can have the Holy Spirit I would not know how to answer this for you. I had the Holy Ghost 4 years before I came into Oneness. Some of my most dynamic experiences were then. Out of the 3000 or people that meet at IHOP there are probably a good number that had the same Spirit I had from 1974-1978.

If that is true then it indicates they are a cult practicing witchcraft, passing themselves off as the 'moving of the Spirit of God'.

Did you read the analysis of the instructions for their music and 'prayer method'? Have you considered that perhaps your emotions and feelings are being 'moved' by their worship methods rather than your soul and spirit being moved by God?

I have not read anything about their "prayer method". I have heard Mike Biclke say he prays 3 hours a day. That seems like a good example. If they have a prayer method that is not of God in some of their methodology I commented earlier let them be rebuked.

As far as my EMOTIONS being moved by music I plead guilty. I have not seen it fail that when I am worshipping emotionally that my Spirit is blessed.

I can say, from personal experience, there's a whole lot of unbiblical and spiritually unhealthy stuff going on in the religious world that is being passed off as 'revival' and 'the moving of the Spirit'.

Well yes. The reason I am not attending a local Church at this time.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I read your statements, and sometimes I'm like 'we live in two entirely different universes'. No 'fear of God' being taught and sung about in any church except IHOP? No songs about God's judgment? For real?

That doesn't even make sense to me.

We must. I have tried to think of songs about Gods judgment from other various Church groups but I cant think of any unless I go back to the 70's.