Elephant in the room - accusation of judging

[shazeep]

it was two simple questions, Mike. How do you possibly crank out so much preaching in 30 minutes? Ok, so i'll slog through all this, and find the answers, and i'll get back to you.

[shazeep]

We are told to do likewise because Christians need to do good works.


but you did not answer the question, as the Pharisee listed his many good works, but is deemed rejected, whereas the GS, who only did the one, Christ tells us to "do likewise."

The good samaritan is saved not because of his good deed to the victim on the road. It is because he trusted in the work of the cross for his salvation

he was a Samaritan, Mike, he most emphatically did not trust any conception of "work of the cross" made by any Jew or former Jew, sorry. He was a Muslim, or a precursor, he was not a Christian, and would not have been interested in becoming one, and Christ would surely have mentioned it if he was or did.

so please answer again, which doesn't mean that you have to believe all that, just rephrase or whatever if you like.

why are we told by Christ to "go and do likewise" @ the GS, but not @ the Pharisees prayer?

[shazeep]

I never know if you mean ORIGINAL POST or ONENESS PENTECOSTAL when you use OP.


if you ever have any original post works deemed necessary for salvation, surely they would agree with your conception of Oneness Pentecostal ones, so wadr your statement here means what?

[shazeep]

I cannot understand why you keep asking me for the answer. How many times must I say we must do good things as christians, but not to save us?

as many as you like, i don't care, as that answer is meaningless, whereas actually answering the question will provide some insight.

[shazeep]

I really mean it when I say people can make all the claims they want, but it is ONLY what GOD sees in their hearts that determines if they are really saved. See, here is what you miss. And I said this before as well. We can ONLY go by what people say.

well, you really mean it when you say that people must do those works in your "church" in order to "be saved," too; i am not suggesting that you are being disingenuous, at least not consciously--i am suggesting that you have accepted a lie, that let's admit you did not get from Scripture on your own. You went to some "Bible College."

And wadr if you admit that all you can go by is what people say, then i don't get why all the resistance @ 'you accept verbal declarations as proof?' My mom is talking on the phone, doing it right now! "Is she a believer? Oh, that's good." So apparently what they say, even once removed, is sufficient. I don't mean to say that this is universally a "bad" thing, people are known by their reputations, and this is one way we disseminate opinions about them, but the point is that they are just that--opinions.

[shazeep]

All I have said is they're lost and we're saved. THAT HAS NOTHING to do with the way we treat anyone.

ok, and all i am saying is that you are lost, according to Scripture, and there is a better way, whether i can demonstrate it or not. And you haven't thanked me yet!

[shazeep]

The point is, Zeep, ,it does not matter. It matters what God knows about a heart.

the point might be that it does not matter from your perspective, but how about we ask a Catholic?

And how might "It matters what God knows about a heart" conflict with "all Catholics are lost?"

[deacon blues]

God hates prideful, self righteous judgment. True judgment is done in humility and without hostility. True Biblical judgment is motivated by love and has the goal of reconciliation not condemnation.

[shazeep]

very nice. i must admit to this being what i aspire to but rarely accomplish; but then, i am not a pastor, held to a higher standard. I mostly dismiss the condescension, as tit-for-tat to make the point doesn't work, and i am too direct with it anyway, and have no desire to refine the skill. So i just ignore all the "your problem is," and "no no no no" stuff as best i can, because i can be plenty sanctimonious myself, and we are after all on a forum, talking out our opinions, which might even be a bad idea sometimes, i don't know.

I think one certainly reveals where their heart is in doing so, and you have put your finger on why it is a bad idea to even hold in your heart that "they are all lost."

[shazeep]

But the bible made statements that cannot be misunderstood. Jesus died on the cross. That is fact. The Koran teaches HE DID NOT die on the cross.

which is why we have moved on to Catholics; your literal understanding of "the cross." So, this does not work for "All Catholics are lost," you might explain this.