Elephant in the room - accusation of judging

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i said that to illustrate that you are being sanctimonious toward other genuine seekers after God, and that you would not appreciate being considered lost.

Shazeep. Get a clue just for one moment, please. I said this LONG ago, but you need to shut up and listen for a minute and get it this time. Phew!

If I went up to a muslim, I would not say YOU ARE ALL LOST. Okay? Good grief, man.
Do I think they're genuine seekers of God? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I KNOW they think I am lost and they KNOW I think they're lost. I told your hypocritical self that a muslim told me I am lost and I never said said anything similar about it to him c concerning my opinion. And you excused him. That's being a hypocrite, first class.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sorry cannot follow your words here, AGAIN. You need to type out more of what you're thinking, because you're missing some thought points that render your post not easy to understand.

well, in this particular case you are telling me i am wrong for suggesting that you might treat people differently based upon your judgement of whether they are lost or saved, and i suggested that at the very least you would be more inclined to "convert" them, and that this is similar to imagining that you can declare other people whom you have not met lost without any examination of their fruit, and expect that this mindset would not evidence itself in other ways. So "wrong" is actually pretty ridiculous, don't you think? Our actions toward others vary based upon our beliefs and knowledge, for better or worse.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i don't need to ask them, i already know their doctrine is not mine. You ignore that the Bible says we should do a lot of things,

A lot of talk and no evidence.

Show me where the bible says things I do not do. Come on. Enough talk. Prove it with scripture.

and insist upon your understanding of Scripture for everyone, or to hell with them.

It's not my view, it's the Bible's intended view that they must believe.

Next.

This is the benefit of an advanced education in Christianity? That everything really important in Scripture be filtered through your lens?

Wrong.

Next.

I suggest that the conception of righteousness provided you, that you now preach, is taking you to hell, Mike;

Prove it with bible.

Next.

and Little children seem to be backing me up. Do not be deceived. Gee, i wonder why he put it that way, how might a Rhema student possibly be deceived?

What is this Rhema student nonsense? lol

The one who does what is right is righteous,

Right.

And that goes part and parcel with the blood of Jesus saving one in the same bookr, for goodness' sake.

and if your theology discounts this, as you have indicated that it does,

I never indicated any such thing. My theology states the ones who do righteousness are indeed righteous.

Next.

perhaps it is time to review what "trust in the work of the cross" means, and possibly even "like the Bible says we must do" which i certainly don't disagree with, but trust the Holy Spirit to direct me in, and not men conducting a religion.

ditto.

Next?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, in this particular case you are telling me i am wrong for suggesting that you might treat people differently based upon your judgement of whether they are lost or saved, and i suggested that at the very least you would be more inclined to "convert" them, and that this is similar to imagining that you can declare other people whom you have not met lost without any examination of their fruit,

When someone says they deny the cross occurred, they're lost.

Let me ask some questions now.

Why don't you think they're lost?

and expect that this mindset would not evidence itself in other ways. So "wrong" is actually pretty ridiculous, don't you think? Our actions toward others vary based upon our beliefs and knowledge, for better or worse.

Not as far as being courteous and kind to them.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i can see that that might be tripe; we can compare one's speech with their actions, spiritual discernment, or keep believing them in the face of evidence to the contrary, denial, and as to the "flatly states" part, i would not hold out much hope for them myself, but we have the Vineyard Owner with Two Sons to consider; and the fact that you may have a poor or at least one-dimensional definition of "righteousness."

You've shown you twisted the story of the vineyard and two sons all apart. You miss the chapter's overall context.

Women might be saved in childbirth, so you surely have a bad def of "saved," too. The point is that you demonstrably do not know, and surely should not be trying to reduce salvation to your--or rather Rhema's-

What is RHEMA in your posts, anyway? I heard of a rhema bible college. Never been to it nor agree with it. Is that what you refer to? Anyway, why are you using this term? See how your posts make no sense and are vague?

-inadequate understanding for purposes of dissemination as a pastor, at least imo, do it if you like. I would have vastly more respect for a pastor who said "I don't really know, but i can regurgitate what i was told, and maybe do some reflecting upon it and get back to you" than one who insists his regurgitation is some kind of irrefutable law.

Irrefutable law? Again, make some sense.

[shazeep]

I never said the good samaritan cannot be saved. There you go with that lying nonsense again.

well, you have said that he accepted the cross to be saved, which i disputed, and you haven't got to that post yet, perhaps. Also the point was that this post of yours again negates any salvation possibilities for him, quoted in post 96, your words but attributed to me there.

gotta run, have a good evening.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i said that to illustrate that you are being sanctimonious toward other genuine seekers after God, and that you would not appreciate being considered lost.

I would not care if they considered me lost. You see, and you're not seeing because I said it already, it matters what God thinks in my estimation. Not what you think or anyone else thinks. Seriously.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

I never said the good samaritan cannot be saved. There you go with that lying nonsense again.

well, you have said that he accepted the cross to be saved, which i disputed, and you haven't got to that post yet, perhaps. Also the point was that this post of yours again negates any salvation possibilities for him, quoted in post 96, your words but attributed to me there.

gotta run, have a good evening.

That story is not about being saved or not. Did you get that statement from me this time? For I said enough.

[mfblume]

Shazeep, do you believe muslims or ANYONE is lost if they do not even believe Jesus died on the cross? If not, then why? If so, then why?

Shazeep,:

Joh 3:17-18 KJV For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do you believe these verses indicate that people who do not believe they need be saved through Christ are saved? If so, why? If not, why? What does it mean to not believe on Him, and why are they condemned if they do not believe on Him?

I predict you cannot answer these questions or will refuse.

[mfblume]

Scripture showing Paul considered himself saved when he wrote the following words:

1Co 1:18 KJV For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2Ti 1:9 KJV Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 3:5 KJV Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

So, tell me again the bible does not say we can know we are saved and explain how that is so using this scripture.