Elephant in the room - accusation of judging

[shazeep]

15But if you bite and devour one another, watch out, or you will be consumed by one another.

29On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart — by the Spirit, not the letter. That man’s praise is not from men but from God.

1Therefore, any one of youa, b who judges is without excuse.c For when you judge another,d you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things. 2We know that God’s judgment on those who do such things is based on the truth. 3Do you really think — anyone of you who judges those who do such things yet do the same — that you will escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you despise the riches of His kindness,e restraint,f and patience,g not recognizingh that God’s kindnessi is intended to lead you to repentance? 5But because of your hardness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrathj for yourself in the day of wrath,k when God’s righteous judgment is revealed. 6He will repay each one according to his works:l, m 7eternal lifen to those who by persistence in doing goodo seek glory, honor,p and immortality;q 8but wrath and indignation to those who are self-seekingr and disobey the truths but are obeying unrighteousness; 9affliction and distresst for every human being who does evil, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek;u 10but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does what is good, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek. 11There is no favoritism with God.v

14 But if you have bitter ajealousy and 1selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against bthe truth.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

15But if you bite and devour one another, watch out, or you will be consumed by one another.

29On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart — by the Spirit, not the letter. That man’s praise is not from men but from God.

1Therefore, any one of youa, b who judges is without excuse.c For when you judge another,d you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things. 2We know that God’s judgment on those who do such things is based on the truth. 3Do you really think — anyone of you who judges those who do such things yet do the same — that you will escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you despise the riches of His kindness,e restraint,f and patience,g not recognizingh that God’s kindnessi is intended to lead you to repentance? 5But because of your hardness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrathj for yourself in the day of wrath,k when God’s righteous judgment is revealed. 6He will repay each one according to his works:l, m 7eternal lifen to those who by persistence in doing goodo seek glory, honor,p and immortality;q 8but wrath and indignation to those who are self-seekingr and disobey the truths but are obeying unrighteousness; 9affliction and distresst for every human being who does evil, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek;u 10but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does what is good, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek. 11There is no favoritism with God.v

14 But if you have bitter ajealousy and 1selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against bthe truth.

Amen. Everyone quotes it, though.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

You cannot quote "all _______ are lost" from anywhere in Scripture,

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(John 3:18)

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(Mark 16:15-16)

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
(1 John 2:3-4)

He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
(1 John 2:9)

Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
(James 5:19-20)

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:15)

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
(Revelation 21:8)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(Revelation 22:14-15)

There are plenty of scriptures which state the equivalent of "All ____ are lost." These are just a handful. There are many more.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

These are just a handful. There are many more.

hey, stick with all of those, unrepentant, and we will be in agreement. But when you make an arbitrary division that is not based upon evidence, fruit, then consider that you may be your own worst witness, imo.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

hey, stick with all of those, unrepentant, and we will be in agreement. But when you make an arbitrary division that is not based upon evidence, fruit, then consider that you may be your own worst witness, imo.

I do not make "arbitrary divisions." The Bible itself classifies people as being in one of two classes, namely what we call 'saved' and what we call 'lost'. It gives numerous conditions of being a member of each class. I simply agree with what the Bible claims.

When a person makes arbitrary claims as being true, that is not based upon Bible evidence, then that person is indeed, their own worst witness.

[shazeep]

ok, well, note the difference in "All Catholics are lost" and "All evildoers are lost."

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok, well, note the difference in "All Catholics are lost" and "All evildoers are lost."

I BELIEVE WE HAVE GOTTEN OFF TRACK

No one has the right to say whether ANYONE is lost, or not; that is,
I, personally, do not KNOW who is actually "saved", or "lost", nor can
you. All we can do is note what the scriptures have to say.

An argument can be made that a scripture is either written, or it's not.
However, it is the Holy Spirit that gives man the understanding: and
the Spirit WILL NOT (and can not) contradict itself. Therefore, if there
SEEMS to be any contradiction, it is because someone has erred in its
interpretation...and more than one party can be wrong.

A friend once told me, "Look Brother, see what this scripture says: 'Be
careful for nothing.' See, Brother: even for nothing do we have to be
careful!" I ask you, is that scripture in the Bible? Of course. But did my
friend have the correct interpretation of it? Not really: his interpretation
contradicted the context of the matter.

We must constantly ask ourselves: "Do my thoughts agree with, or do
they contradict scripture?" Next: The rendering of what someone else is
stating, is it agreeing with, or contradicting scripture? Who is "right": and
can we BOTH be wrong? And there's one more matter to consider: we
can all have the CORRECT content and context, but the wrong ATTITUDE!

The very first measure in which we must be correct, is the gospel that
saves. If we have that wrong as a premise, then everything else is will be
wrong. Yes we may be "correct" in every other matter, but the end result
will not lead us to the place we wish to be: nor can we lead others to it.
Truth will always be Truth: and it is manifest in righteousness. Yet not our
own righteousness, but the Righteousness of HIM that calls us to Himself.

Brother Villa

[aegsm76]

I do not believe anyone in this thread has said that "all Catholics are lost" or "all Muslims are lost".
That is what shaz interprets when we point out that official Catholic and Muslim theology are not according the the Bible.

[shazeep]

well, my apologies, but more than one person have said both, and more, quite directly. I was also taken aback. So the first part is not in dispute (you can search it), and this can only be because the second part requires that one arbitrate Scripture for others--obviously the pope would disagree with both of us, and we find that even different sects of Pentecostalism do not agree with each other.

i think disagreeing is fine; but condemning is another matter entirely imo; and as this is a widely held misconception, apparently, some fruit might be realized by focusing on the second part.

[shazeep]