Elephant in the room - accusation of judging - Page 25

mfblume · #**241** 06-13-2016, 11:02 AM

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Originally Posted by shazeep

Jesus told Nicodemus he must be born again!

hey, i'm telling you you must be born again; how's that workin out for ya?

I was born again!

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Jesus didn't tell the thief on the cross that he had to be born again, but said "today you will be with Me in paradise."

And that was days before he even resurrected, and beyond that, another 40 days before He told the disciples to BEGIN preaching a message they never preached before in Jerusalem.... namely, repentance, remission of sins in His name, and reception of the promise of the Father, which is fulfilled in Acts 2:38.

Surely you knew that!

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Jesus leads, not us. We FOLLOW His Spirit. His Spirit leads us to tell the lost about salvation, and we follow him by obeying. And like Paul, we tell anyone who thinks to follow us, to only do so as long as we follow Christ.

ok, well if your "following Christ" leads you to "all Catholics are lost,"

This is where you totally misread my intentions and it put you on a hate binge for me ever since. Again, the bible says we must trust on the work of the cross or be lost, and catholics don't. But I already said that and you twisted it as though I go around emphasizing "all ___ are lost. "

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and you reject what i am saying, fine;

You simply twist what I say, intend and mean. And you simply conflict with the bible and excuse it away saying God put that in there to deceive dishonest people.

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you might defend your position to your brethren here, who do not believe that anyone here even made such statements, while we both know that you and others have, and in fact this is a widely held position. Where is the disconnect?

The disconnect is in what I meant by it and what I explained here about that. You've disregarded so many explanations I made, that it's moot now.

mfblume · #**242** 06-13-2016, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

said in all humility, surely

...as in we have nothing to boast about since the work of the cross owes all gratitude to God, leaving us nothing without him? Sure thing!

But actually said in the desire to see everyone saved, including you!

mfblume · #**243** 06-13-2016, 11:10 AM

So, is it judging when a person takes what God says is the ruling for who is lost, and seeing that in someone or themselves, and then claiming such people are lost? Or, instead, is judging making your own conclusions of what makes one lost and then seeing someone or themselves fit that criteria and saying they're lost?

?

shazeep · #**244** 06-13-2016, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

The disconnect is in what I meant by it and what I explained here about that. You've disregarded so many explanations I made, that it's moot now.

your justifications were understood from the beginning, Mike; we are all familiar with the rhetoric. It has a basis in Scripture and can even be "proven" to be truth, if other Scripture is disregarded. The disconnect is somewhere else, obviously, if you hold to your explanations while someone else who is OP expresses disbelief that you even said them, and this is not moot, as they have possibly not heard your explanations, i don't know, but they (more than one) are expressing skepticism that they were even uttered, and we must assume there are others, and that this is also a common belief, albeit by apparently two different "Oneness" camps.

So, not being Oneness, i have no dog in the hunt, but if you really care for truth you might explore this.

shazeep · #**245** 06-13-2016, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

...as in we have nothing to boast about since the work of the cross owes all gratitude to God, leaving us nothing without him? Sure thing!

But actually said in the desire to see everyone saved, including you!

ya, that should bring 'em in in droves

mfblume · #**246** 06-13-2016, 03:27 PM

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Originally Posted by shazeep

your justifications were understood from the beginning, Mike; we are all familiar with the rhetoric.

Don't put yourself in a "we" since everyone has witnessed your uniqueness here in denying scripture.

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It has a basis in Scripture and can even be "proven" to be truth, if other Scripture is disregarded.

I have yet to see you present any scripture to deny it. You take it all out of context.

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The disconnect is somewhere else, obviously, if you hold to your explanations while someone else who is OP expresses disbelief that you even said them, and this is not moot, as they have possibly not heard your explanations, i don't know, but they (more than one) are expressing skepticism that they were even uttered, and we must assume there are others, and that this is also a common belief, albeit by apparently two different "Oneness" camps.

So, not being Oneness, i have no dog in the hunt, but if you really care for truth you might explore this.

You've proven yourself out of context with not on the word of God but even my intentions, disregarding every statement I made as to what I intended. SO, just going to need a better reference to consider that.

mfblume · #**247** 06-13-2016, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

ya, that should bring 'em in in droves

I've seen multitudes come to God. What 'bout yourself?

Anyway, enough of always making this about me.

A person tries to get you into the word and discuss it, and get away from personal attacks, and it just doesn't work. Better stop, or you'll be name-calling me below the dirt again.

Seek the Lord, while he may be found of you, s. I am praying for you. Honestly.

Anyway, tired of your trolling. See ya.

shazeep · #**248** 06-13-2016, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You've proven yourself out of context with not on the word of God but even my intentions, disregarding every statement I made as to what I intended. SO, just going to need a better reference to consider that.

i think you have been given ample space to explain the intentions of "Everyone else who is not OP is lost" and i cannot stop anyone accepting your explanations or rejecting them, so i trust the intelligence of unbiased readers here to discern what is truth, which will out even if neither of us has it right.

As they are also OP, i cannot discern a better reference for a house divided, if any of them also object to "All NonOPs are lost," or phrase it how you like so as not to be taken out of context, misconstrued, or otherwise misunderstood. Or avoid this question as well, Mike, i don't really care, and the answer is obvious anyway. No one gets to reason their way out of You reap what you sow, surely we might agree on that.

shazeep · #**249** 06-13-2016, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I've seen multitudes come to God. What 'bout yourself?

well, i'll just ignore that you dodged the point again, made back at "said in all humility, surely," and say that i am the one who has to deal with those multitudes who are now inclined to run from God, gee i wonder why, 65 million strong and seeking guidance. Death has a smell, and rhetoric will not hide it for long. Have a good evening.

mfblume · #**250** 07-01-2016, 11:41 PM

For the record, it's not OPs, or any certain pigeonhole of people who are lost, or saved. It's people who obey and believe the WHOLE BIBLE. And the focus of the bible is saying the saved are those who trust in the work of the cross for their righteousness, both initially and ongoing.

But since the thread got way offtrack.... let's try again.

Anyone else weighing in on whether or not it is judging to apply a claim made by the bible concerning salvation to a situation in any given life?