Jesus Said To "Watch"---Watch for What?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Well this is probably the point of biggest difference between me and many in eschatology belief. But I will try to explain my understanding.
First let me state I do not believe in a physical bodily resurrection. Secondly the words "see the son of man coming in clouds" is a apocalyptic phrase found in the OT, which does not mean anyone actually saw God in the clouds.
What many don't seem to grasp is that while the disciple saw Christ rise, the point that seems to be missed is "he was take up and a cloud received him" the "return in like manner" must point to "clouds" not a physical return. As Rev. 1:7 states, "he cometh with clouds" resorting back to the meaning of OT times when God came in clouds. No one literally saw God, but we know by looking back that the fulfillment of the prophecy was fulfilled when the nation God used to judge Israel came and took them into captivity.

In other words those that pierced him saw that day, the nations of the world wailed because of that day.

At least that is how I understand it.

It wasn't always apocalyptic. It wasn't here:

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So there's no final judgment coming upon us. Yay!

All were already judged at the cross.

Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

As I understand it, the judgment (great white throne) happened at the time of the national judgment of the nation in 70ad. All the dead till that time were raised and judged, to everlasting life or eternal damnation. Today we are individually judged in life and receive our reward at death.

[shazeep]

i think there are even passages relating to one's conscience that further illuminate this judgement.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It wasn't always apocalyptic. It wasn't here:

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

I believe it was, did they see him in the cloud? Did they see God in the clouds in the OT? Will we or did they literally see Christ come back in clouds, as per Rev. 1:7?

[Godsdrummer]

The real question of this thread, is are we still watching and waiting for something else to happen, in context of the chapter in Mark?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

All were already judged at the cross.

Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

As I understand it, the judgment (great white throne) happened at the time of the national judgment of the nation in 70ad. All the dead till that time were raised and judged, to everlasting life or eternal damnation. Today we are individually judged in life and receive our reward at death.

Rev 20 never said all the dead "at that time." It said ALL THE DEAD.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I believe it was, did they see him in the cloud? Did they see God in the clouds in the OT? Will we or did they literally see Christ come back in clouds, as per Rev. 1:7?

I disagree. An actual cloud received Him. A glory cloud. Just like an actual cloud filled the temple in the old testament.

Acts is written historically, and historic accounts are not written apocalyptically.

We will see Christ's second coming literally in a glory cloud.

[shazeep]

perhaps; but it is hard to miss the Holy Spirit coming down--albeit from a cloud, which then reflects upon the other meaning of "cloud"--in the establishment of the Early Church, manifesting in (essentially) the capitulation of Empire to the concept, in Augustine, after trying everything in their power, including open season on Christians, to stamp them out.

One seems to be admonished to watch that they are serving, and perhaps not just fostering a belief, or defending a dead faith.

[Esaias]

"I'm weaving a glory cloud!" - Mario Murillo recounting a woman's explanation of why her arms were flailing about in church, mid 1990s...

[shazeep]

ya i'll have to think about that one, there's a few different ways one could go there...