Those who never heard about Jesus?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But those other"Gospels" are not what Paul preached . He gave us those words to test other faiths.

the thing is, his vision of how things are supposed to be is different from ours. Those he converted went on en masse to martyrdom; his concept of "baptised" and "consume Christ, flesh and blood" is much removed from ours. One has to consider that Paul cannot be contradicting Christ, therefore he is restating Him. imo.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That can always be said when a person thinks the bible has errors. We need a foundation other than our own whims. The bible is a solid foundation. When errors are claimed in all holy books then the only foundation is the sand of our whims.

i find no error in Scripture, myself; but i approach it as truth, and not proof; a compendium of contradictions. Beware anyone suggesting that there are no contradictions in Scripture, imo; this is an illusion. They may only be apparent ones, but the devil is in the details.

[shazeep]

i think it must be considered that what Paul sought in meeting with the other Apostles, 3 years after his awakening, was benevolence.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i find no error in Scripture, myself; but i approach it as truth, and not proof; a compendium of contradictions. Beware anyone suggesting that there are no contradictions in Scripture, imo; this is an illusion. They may only be apparent ones, but the devil is in the details.

There are no contradictions and God does not do anything with His word to deceive anyone.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i think it must be considered that what Paul sought in meeting with the other Apostles, 3 years after his awakening, was benevolence.

Galatians shows us Paul was concerned over his message, and knew he needed confirmation from the apostles in Jerusalem. He got it.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

There are no contradictions and God does not do anything with His word to deceive anyone.

ya but what you might learn if you didn't know tho

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I notice you failed to answer the question. I asked "How do you know?" and you simply repeated your claim.

So then, it is simply your opinion, based upon nothing (that you have explained, anyway).

I had an experience. I'm not altogether comfortable talking about it because it brings up such deep emotion. The experienced forever changed my thoughts on death and God. I've seen it. I've seen what many others have seen. I've experienced what they've experienced. It's real. And in that moment the only way I can describe it is it is like a "download" of intuitive knowing. There are no words, it's like telepathy with emotion. It's so hard to explain. It was indescribable peace. A oneness that is beyond words. A realization that is almost instinctual. It is almost as though you are remembering what you knew was true all along, but had forgotten. And it is almost as though we are all going through life desperately trying to remember.

All we have are opinions, beliefs, conclusions. Some are based upon careful examination of data, others are based upon wishful thinking, emotion, or some variation of group think accepted without critical examination.

If I tell you that I've swam in the ocean and you've never seen the ocean (or can't remember it) and deny its existence, there's little I can do to prove what it is like. You have to experience it yourself.

I'd like to say again, I'm not here to change your beliefs. They won't change at this time anyway. I'm here to give you a conversation that will serve to help you deal with the reality you are going to one day face so that you can avoid the darkness. I expect you to not believe me, mock me, ridicule me, and laugh at me. It is what I would have done to anyone approaching me saying what I am sharing. But the day will come, and it is unavoidable, when you too will see what I've seen. And your first impulse will be disbelief. You'll even feel anger and like you've been betrayed. Then you'll wonder if it is real and recoil from it, reject it, and even prepare to curse it. It is like pure rage and disappointment. All of these emotions will come in a split second, but this brief second will feel like an eternity. It is almost as though time stands still as you process what is unfolding in front of you. And if you linger there too long you will begin to drift into the darkness. The Light will draw you, but it will not force you. Even the language of that sentence is so difficult. I said, "it", but it isn't an "it", it is a, "he", but it isn't a, "he". It is beyond any description our language can capture. But the Light will draw you. Entire portions of your life will be relieved in a split second, entire decades. Your life literally flashes before your eyes. Sometimes in motion picture, sometimes in just a frozen picture, sometimes rewinding and fast forwarding. You feel the emotions of everyone around you as though their emotions are flowing on a web of some sort that is linking us all. You'll see a you that you've never seen or experienced. You'll see how you were perceived through the eyes of others. Different views of you. Some will bring surprise. Some will bring shame.

I don't want to get into it. Also, because it is so dear to me and so many emotions are connected to what happened, I don't want to see it torn apart under uninformed criticism. Not just because it hurts me. But because I know it will one day hurt the critic. If only I could just "beam" my experience into your head, perhaps you'd understand. But I can't. All I can do is equip you. It will not be like anything you're prepared to experience. In fact, your religious determination and preparation will hinder you more than you realize right now. Just be prepared to embrace the Light. He will not hurt you. He loves you. In fact, you are a part of him. You came out from him and will return to him. You, in a very real way, are him and he is you. As am I, and as is every human being who has ever lived. It is indescribable.

Since you have provided no argumentation for your philosophy besides your own personal authority, which itself is unsubstantiated by anything other than your assertions as to what is and what is not true, and since many of your assertions are in fact both irrational and factually untrue, I see no reason whatsoever to give any credence at all to your personal flights of fancy.

I have no authority. And as I have said, I am not here to convince you. I'm only here to have the conversation. What you glean from what I'm telling you will one day be more important than all the books peddled by modern religion. Do not allow the myths of this world to cause you to fear or hate. Do not become so dogmatic that you'll look GOD in the face and curse the Light.

I would suggest, though, that you investigate the claim of Christ's resurrection being an historical and documented event. "Why did the earliest Christians testify that He had resurrected and been seen by them? Were they lying? Were they hallucinating? Were they delusional? Mistaken? etc.

I don't discount the resurrection. Nor do I judge any who believed in it.

But that would of course require a willingness to go where the evidence leads, not lead the evidence where you want it to go - an often arduous task.

Evidence means nothing when you have an experience.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But those other"Gospels" are not what Paul preached . He gave us those words to test other faiths.

Was Paul infallible?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That can always be said when a person thinks the bible has errors. We need a foundation other than our own whims. The bible is a solid foundation. When errors are claimed in all holy books then the only foundation is the sand of our whims.

You've lost your intuitive reasoning. It is almost as though you are a computer spitting out data.

What is meant by the following text:

Genesis 49:6
O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

Why did they dig down a wall?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Antipas

You've lost your intuitive reasoning. It is almost as though you are a computer spitting out data.
What is meant by the following text:
Genesis 49:6
(1) O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.
(2) Why did they dig down a wall?

Jacob had nothing to do with the ungodly act of Simeon and Levi

(1) "Blessed is the man that walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor
stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful."
(2) Men are known to have built walls around their cities for their
defense against marauders and enemies. Simeon and Levi went into
a city on false pretenses (claiming peace), to kill the man (a prince of
that city) that took advantage of their sister. They not only killed him,
but [all the men] of the city (emphasis mine). Although they went in
thought the gates of the city, stealth was in their hearts, therefore it is
said (Jacob's words) that they did ". . . dig down a wall."