You not preaching holiness till you've named it!

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

If he did not wanted us to have facial hair, then why he invented it.

I guess Aaron, David and Ezekiel have split hell wide open.

Dis is the way those that refuse straight preaching, argue against Holiness.

They fight for liberty all the while entangling themselves deeper into the spiders web, a bondage to the things of this world.

Make no mistake abou-dit, all artificial ornamentation worn on da people's body or clothes or in the hair, reveals a lost or cold inward condition. What you wear speaks a language.

Holiness preaching, should promote the sanctity of the Christian life. The careful calculated steps of the Christian journey. The most ernest desire in da heart of da Saint to please God. To become more like him.

These guys detract from the topic, they try to divert sincere hunger for the things of God. All I was trying to do was to promote the quest to be more like Him by encouraging ministry to name ""every weight and the sin that doth so easily beset us.""

Notice, how some have tried to elevate the argument to the things the items that hold no value. To the Christian journeys. For instance there is no sin in jewels, gold or pearls, we know that. But these guys want to make us look ignorant, by provoking us to argue against. When all the while they know their wrong, it's Holiness or Hell

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

Dis is the way those that refuse straight preaching, argue against Holiness.

They fight for liberty all the while entangling themselves deeper into the spiders web, a bondage to the things of this world.

Make no mistake abou-dit, all artificial ornamentation worn on da people's body or clothes or in the hair, reveals a lost or cold inward condition. What you wear speaks a language.

Holiness preaching, should promote the sanctity of the Christian life. The careful calculated steps of the Christian journey. The most ernest desire in da heart of da Saint to please God. To become more like him.

These guys detract from the topic, they try to divert sincere hunger for the things of God. All I was trying to do was promote the quest to be more like Him by encouraging ministry to name ""every weight and the son that doth so easily besets' us.""

Notice, how some have tried to elevate the argument to the things the items that hold no value. To the Christian journeys. For instance there is no sin in jewels, gold or pearls, we know that. But these guys want to make us look ignorant, by provoking us to argue against. When all the while they know their wrong, it's Holiness or Hell

Leviticus 20:7
Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the Lord your God. And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the Lord which sanctify you.

Leviticus 20:26
And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine

1 Peter 1:13-16
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: (( But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; )) Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Holiness -Qodesh H6944, first means separate and apart with a second to withdraw. Means to be set apart, to hallow, to sanctify, to be holy, to show oneself holy, to be treated as holy, to consecrate, to treat as holy, to dedicate, to be made holy, to declare holy or consecrated, to behave, to act holy, to dedicate oneself. קֹדֶשׁ qôdesh, ko'-desh; from H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstract, sanctity:—consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (× most) holy (× day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

Leviticus 20:7
Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the Lord your God. And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the Lord which sanctify you.

Leviticus 20:26
And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine

1 Peter 1:13-16
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: (( But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; )) Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Holiness -Qodesh H6944, first means separate and apart with a second to withdraw. Means to be set apart, to hallow, to sanctify, to be holy, to show oneself holy, to be treated as holy, to consecrate, to treat as holy, to dedicate, to be made holy, to declare holy or consecrated, to behave, to act holy, to dedicate oneself. קֹדֶשׁ qôdesh, ko'-desh; from H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstract, sanctity:—consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (× most) holy (× day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary

By definition and practice it is just as much outward as it is inward.

Lolo!?!

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The issue is sin.

I never intended to make jewelry sin by definition of OT law. The only point that I was making is that Peter and Paul said not to adorn ourselves with it. The debate was over the interpretation of 1 Peter 3 and 1 Timothy 2. If you advocate wearing jewelry outside of a watch or a wedding band, so be it. I still consider you a brother, but we just disagree here. With all the points that have been made I don't think you can fairly dismiss the conservative views as being wrong. I do agree with the fact it is a matter of the heart.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

How strange I was under the impression that the Book of Revelation was New Testament not Old Testament, and the book of Revelation does use Jewelry to represent spiritually good things.

And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
(Revelation 7:2-3 KJV)

So Christians can get crosses tattooed on their foreheads?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

How strange I was under the impression that the Book of Revelation was New Testament not Old Testament, and the book of Revelation does use Jewelry to represent spiritually good things.

And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
(Revelation 8:3-4 KJV)

We can burn incense in church as part of our prayer and worship, then? You agree with that?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
(Revelation 8:3-4 KJV)

We can burn incense in church as part of our prayer and worship, then? You agree with that?

In fact, I guess we can have real, live altars in our meetings, like the catholics do, all covered in gold, with incense burning on them, ministers wearing awesome liturgical robes studded with jewels and gold and wearing a big crown/fish hat?

I'm telling you folks, I've said it many times in many threads, we are repeating history. Look where this goes. Think of what 'church' is gonna look like 100 years from now... maybe a lot like the local Orthodox church?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

The context was not the lack of inward preaching, but rather the lack of the outward. Son we are leaning on you to take the baton and hold on to the old pads and run with patients, and fight the good fight.

The fact remains, you can't be wrong on the outside and be right on the inside. Either.

All these other dummies, please ignore the gainsayers. They have exposed themselves as was the intention. And all those that listen to them will follow the blind leading right into the pit.

2nd Peter 2:12-
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children.Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them thanthe beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The issue was originally "what is holiness and how should it be preached?" People wanted to focus on "standards", and the issue became "should Christian (women) wear jewelry?" You and brother FZ took the position that "what was used in the OT to represent spiritually good things cannot be wrong under the new covenant, today", which I demonstrated was not true.

Responding with "the issue is sin" doesn't really make any logical sense as a response. Not sure how your statement affects the status of the discussion?

The discussion evolved to what is sin. Nothing wrong with a discussion evolving.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I never intended to make jewelry sin by definition of OT law. The only point that I was making is that Peter and Paul said not to adorn ourselves with it. The debate was over the interpretation of 1 Peter 3 and 1 Timothy 2. If you advocate wearing jewelry outside of a watch or a wedding band, so be it. I still consider you a brother, but we just disagree here. With all the points that have been made I don't think you can fairly dismiss the conservative views as being wrong. I do agree with the fact it is a matter of the heart.

You have the best answers here. But I do believe your view can be proved wrong. I maintain you misunderstand the new testament references, that's all. But what you said best was we just disagree. I would now want to persuade anyone to go against their conscience.