You not preaching holiness till you've named it!

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I never intended to make jewelry sin by definition of OT law. The only point that I was making is that Peter and Paul said not to adorn ourselves with it. The debate was over the interpretation of 1 Peter 3 and 1 Timothy 2. If you advocate wearing jewelry outside of a watch or a wedding band, so be it. I still consider you a brother, but we just disagree here. With all the points that have been made I don't think you can fairly dismiss the conservative views as being wrong. I do agree with the fact it is a matter of the heart.

I believe you are wrong in stating that Paul and Peter's point was that we are not to adorn ourselves with Jewelry. Rather it should be done in moderation. Else both are condemning the wearing of clothes also. Which we both know cannot be.

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

By the same token. Paul would be saying women cannot fix their hair. Yet no one teaches that.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

One cannot use these passages to condemn, one thing yet allow other things in the same verse. One must be consistent with the whole verse, else you are not understanding the meaning of the verse.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I believe you are wrong in stating that Paul and Peter's point was that we are not to adorn ourselves with Jewelry. Rather it should be done in moderation. Else both are condemning the wearing of clothes also. Which we both know cannot be.

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

By the same token. Paul would be saying women cannot fix their hair. Yet no one teaches that.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

One cannot use these passages to condemn, one thing yet allow other things in the same verse. One must be consistent with the whole verse, else you are not understanding the meaning of the verse.

The apostle said "whose adorning let it not be..." This is plain, and cannot rationally be taken to mean "whose adorning let it be, just not too much..."

The two apostles say almost verbatim the same thing. Thus we see that "putting on of apparel" answers to "costly array". The godly woman is not to have clothing AS AN ADORNMENT, ie for purely decorative purposes. Clothing is to be modest and functional, not flashy, extravagant, or otherwise used merely as a means of DECORATION.

One MUST be clothed. Failure to wear clothing is shameful. The same can NOT be said about wearing gold or pearls (or other jewelry) or plaiting the hair. There is no sin or shame in not wearing jewelry or having elaborate hairstyles.

In summary the apostle said "let it not be". We cannot conclude he meant "let it be", so we have to work within the constraints given. One can do without gold or plaited hair. That leaves apparel. Apparel MUST be worn, so it is obvious that certain KINDS of apparel are forbidden. Any apparel worn for purely decorative purposes is out, as is "costly array".

On the other side, we have essentially people saying "When the Bible says don't let your adorning consist of gold, plaited hair, or fancy shmancy clothing, it really means you can be adorned with gold, plaited hair, and fancy shmancy clothing, as long as it's not too much and as long as your heart is right." In other words, "if you feel comfortable with doing exactly what two apostles said not to do, then it's okay."

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The discussion evolved to what is sin. Nothing wrong with a discussion evolving.

No, nothing wrong with evolving discussions. It just seems to me your remark was somewhat of a non sequitur.

[Esaias]

So, having disposed of these specious arguments, let's get back to the original thought of the thread.

"How should holiness be preached in a pastoral setting?"

Thoughts as to "what is holiness, and how should it be presented?"

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, having disposed of these specious arguments,

specious? Come on.

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, having disposed of these specious arguments, let's get back to the original thought of the thread.

"How should holiness be preached in a pastoral setting?"

Thoughts as to "what is holiness, and how should it be presented?"

#1. Build a true bridge of trust and make sure they know you sincerely love them.

Then preach..

#2.
REPENT!
....And to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him...

#3. Repair any broken boards in the true bridge of trust and then make sure they know you still sincerely love them!.

#4. Then NAME the weight and the sin that has beset Us all.

#5. Repair any broken boards in the true bridge of trust and then make sure they know you still sincerely love them!.

Repeat

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

HOLINESS

Nothing greaves me more, than a man who is known among us, who has da ear of the people, and considered to be a preacher's preacher, that has influence, that will not preach his convictions. You can say, 'righteousness' 'holiness' and 'separation' from da world' in your message but in today's relative world it could mean something totally different to a crowd of a couple or several hundred or thousands. I don't mean naming the 5 things that we are all against, but things that have crept in among us unawares. There is a need to make plain what you are preaching. There is a need to say it in a way that nobody misunderstands what you are saying. I want to hear what you are for, young man, but please tell us, what are you against!?! Wowii

There is a need for the restoration of the open pulpit. A pulpit that isn't fettered to a man that has a red hot heart to preach what the Holy Ghost lays on his spirit. Why ask a man to preach for you, if he can't preach da burden of his heart?. When a man is prayed up, prayed through, with a heart full of love for da souls of men. A love for righteousness. A love for holiness. A heart tender to the conviction of the Holy Ghost. Let him preach, let that man name it.

We use the scripture in teaching on prayer, saying "" Matthew 21:21, say unto this mountain, be thou removed.."" Name the mountain to God in prayer. Why not name sin? why not name compromise? why not name those things that "so easily beset us. Hebrews 12:1"" ? The verse that says ""let it not be once named among you"" let me ask, if the sin had not been known then how is the church supposed to be aware? of what or who to run from? I'm not contradicting the apostle, but trying to show, that sin was known, because a man of God named it. Sure it was shameful but the church still had hope as long as the preacher had liberty to make it plain.
""1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?""
""Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand""

Our young men are savvy on the latest trends and fads, words that slip past us old Kahuna's, please help da church, not just by encouraging the down and out, not just by preaching about revival, and building faith for miracles, but brother, help loose those that are bound, by naming those things that are destroying from within. Preach against the queer looking purple pinstripe suits, the height water pants, the pink shirts, the pee wee Herman happy pattern bow ties. Those things that give our boys a feminine appearance.

Preach against the split skirts, the patterns in the hose, the gold in the hair the gold on the clothes. Ask those ladies to take off that shiny stuff from their garments and tie them on a rope and hang around their neck. They wouldn't do it because that would be jewelry. Well I want to ask you young lady, Then why wear it on your clothes? Wear something that's not embarrassing to your pastor, to your father, or that your fellow brother sitting on the pew wouldn't have to turn his head when looking at you from across the room because your skirt is too short and tight while sitting. Where in the world did all these Cesar headbands come from? They came from the pit of hell hatched out of Rome. Fix the church while you were there, preach that queer from behind the piano off the platform, and straighten that place out and have revival! We are not Romans and we are not Greeks we belong to the heavenly Jerusalem. Come on young man, tell us, say it, name it.
"" Isaiah 53:8, Who Shall Declare His Generation? ""

The world is going to hell and people are wasting energy about "shiny stuff"...

Get busy helping people at a nursing home, a cancer ward, a homeless shelter, an orphanage or some other such worthy and noble cause and you won't have time nitpicking over irrelevant issues.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I believe you are wrong in stating that Paul and Peter's point was that we are not to adorn ourselves with Jewelry. Rather it should be done in moderation. Else both are condemning the wearing of clothes also. Which we both know cannot be.

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

By the same token. Paul would be saying women cannot fix their hair. Yet no one teaches that.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

One cannot use these passages to condemn, one thing yet allow other things in the same verse. One must be consistent with the whole verse, else you are not understanding the meaning of the verse.

Your posts are always balanced and logical. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

The world is going to hell and people are wasting energy about "shiny stuff"...

Get busy helping people at a nursing home, a cancer ward, a homeless shelter, an orphanage or some other such worthy and noble cause and you won't have time nitpicking over irrelevant issues.

If you see eye to eye with godsdrummer philosophy you'd feel comfortable in a trinitarian church. Come on I hope that's not right. Wowii?!??

The world IZ going to hell, but changing for an easier way is only sending them to the wide gate and broad way.

The spot and hair of Leporacy was an indicator of a disease dat was otherwise hidden.

It's our responsibility to ID da undr lying issue behind every compromise. Like skinny jeans, rings anywhere on the body, lip gloss, a tight skirt that is normally proper fit, a change in demeanor that is usually modest are some indicators of a heart falling off course. Shal we just ignore these red flags seen in the lives of people we have devoted our lives to? People dat we are to protect? People dat we have given everything for. Countless hours praying for?

Not on YOUR LIFE!!
I'm gonna preach !!
I'm gonna Name it !!
Love won't let me do otherwise.

[KeptByTheWord]

Bro. Cracker...or anyone...

Provide scripture in the NT that equates clothing with holiness? Thanks.