UPCI Mega Churches???

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

We do not judge them.
The Word judges us all.

There is currently no scientific knowledge to prove that same-sex attraction is genetic.
Although it is being frantically looked for...

No the word does not judge them mans interpretation of the word is what judges them.

And you can hide your head in the sand all you want about no scientific knowledge, but the very fact that genes can cause a person to be born with both sex organs refutes your statement IMO that there is no proof genetics cannot cause a person to have the sex organ of one sex yet have leanings towards the same sex.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

No the word does not judge them mans interpretation of the word is what judges them.

And what of Sodom and Gomorrah? You cannot bury your head in the sand and ignore how God dealt with the sin that had taken over these two cities.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

And you can hide your head in the sand all you want about no scientific knowledge, but the very fact that genes can cause a person to be born with both sex organs refutes your statement IMO that there is no proof genetics cannot cause a person to have the sex organ of one sex yet have leanings towards the same sex.

There have always been freaks of nature, however even with all that, there is still no definitive conclusion that one is born with a desire for the same sex. I personally believe it is a spirit of perversion that one gives into at some point in their life.

But one thing we do know is this. The way God dealt with a city full of homose*uals lets us know quite plainly, just how He feels about that sin.

(I use * in certain words so as to not draw in computer bots looking for those words)

[n david]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

You know, experiencing same sex attraction or even having such lusts in the flesh and temptations toward the same isn't a sin, so long as not acted upon, and taken to the Lord in prayer and confession, with a desire to crucify the flesh with the lusts and affections thereof.

There isn't any reason to deny someone an opportunity to serve the Lord, as long as their flesh is in check and no trangressions are occurring.

I mean, how many sexy librarian female worship leaders have been up front for all the men to stumble in their hearts over?

Does the pastor never experience hetero-sexual attractions to other females he's not married to? Can he keep them under the power of the cross and not allow his flesh an occasion?

If so, he's okay to minister, right? So, wouldn't it be true of a person experiencing homo-sexual attraction? They ought to be allowed to minister their gifts in the church.

It's not about giving a pass to sinfulness, but the giving of grace to one and all, lest we forget from whence we came, and create a double standard by which some are judged unworthy for their past, their temptations, their flesh, while others are found accepted, despite their past, their temptations, their flesh.

Sorry, I disagree with this. consapente89 nailed it. Attraction to the opposite sex is natural, though lust is sinful; however, any attraction to the same sex is unnatural and perversion. You cannot scripturally relate attraction between opposite sexes to attraction between the same sex. It does not matter whether or not it is acted upon. It's unnatural and perversion.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

No the word does not judge them mans interpretation of the word is what judges them.

And you can hide your head in the sand all you want about no scientific knowledge, but the very fact that genes can cause a person to be born with both sex organs refutes your statement IMO that there is no proof genetics cannot cause a person to have the sex organ of one sex yet have leanings towards the same sex.

Let's examine your statement here.
I say that there is no scientific proof for a genetic cause of same-sex attraction.
You state that I am hiding my head in the sand, but provide no links to back up your assertion.
Now, at some point in the future, there could be a link established, but there is not yet.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by consapente89

Attraction to the opposite sex is natural while lust is sinful. Attraction to the same sex whether acted on or not is perversion. God created attraction to the opposite sex for marriage and reproduction. It may come to a surprise to many of the "Christian world" that God did NOT create men to be attracted to men or women to women....it is a perverted unnatural attraction. There is definitely an epidemic of effiminacy sweeping through Pentecost and few truly raising their voice against it. It's the above mindset that has lead to the tolerance of so many queers in leadership positions.

Nowhere did I write that the first was natural and the other was not.

I wrote that experiencing the first is no more a sin than experiencing the second.

The actions are the sins, coupled with the lusts in the heart. A heterosexual man may be sinning a lot more than a person who has experienced same sex attractions, if his lusts and his heart are not subdued by the cross versus the person who experiences same sex attractions but keeps his lusts and his heart pure before the Lord through the cross.

Lusting after another man's wife, for example is as much perversion and ungodliness as any other kind of sexual immorality. It is just as much contrary to the Laws of God.

And if you want to know why there has been such an epidemic, maybe it's because those in the church who experience same sex attractions were given Law and not Grace, and finding no help from the ministry for their problems, found only condemnation, and so, have not been able to work through their issues properly, so as to have victory.

After all, since the fault is not God's, and since the onus for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry falls upon the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers, is hard to expect the saints, many of them new converts coming out of homosexuality, to have any clear idea of how to finally overcome once and for all the lusts of their old man.

Simply receiving the Holy Spirit is no automatic guarantee of anything, when more is not added (2 Peter 1:5-7).

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by n david

Sorry, I disagree with this. consapente89 nailed it. Attraction to the opposite sex is natural, though lust is sinful; however, any attraction to the same sex is unnatural and perversion. You cannot scripturally relate attraction between opposite sexes to attraction between the same sex. It does not matter whether or not it is acted upon. It's unnatural and perversion.

Amnon and Tamar. Only half siblings, no worse than Abraham and Sarah.

The Septuagint uses the word agapao for his "love" toward her.

Καὶ ἐγενήθη μετὰ ταῦτα καὶ τῷ Αβεσσαλωμ υἱῷ Δαυιδ ἀδελφὴ καλὴ τῷ εἴδει σφόδρα, καὶ ὄνομα αὐτῇ Θημαρ, καὶ ἠγάπησεν αὐτὴν Αμνων υἱὸς Δαυιδ.

Tamar was even willing to stay with Amnon and be his wife, though he had raped her.

Is this story not full of perversion and unnatural lust and sin between the opposite sexes?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Amnon and Tamar. Only half siblings, no worse than Abraham and Sarah.

The Septuagint uses the word agapao for his "love" toward her.

Καὶ ἐγενήθη μετὰ ταῦτα καὶ τῷ Αβεσσαλωμ υἱῷ Δαυιδ ἀδελφὴ καλὴ τῷ εἴδει σφόδρα, καὶ ὄνομα αὐτῇ Θημαρ, καὶ ἠγάπησεν αὐτὴν Αμνων υἱὸς Δαυιδ.

Tamar was even willing to stay with Amnon and be his wife, though he had raped her.

Is this story not full of perversion and unnatural lust and sin between the opposite sexes?

Is not Absalom uncovering his father's nakedness by fornicating with David's concubine in public display not perverse and unnatural, according to the Law, even though opposite sexes were involved?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Is not Absalom uncovering his father's nakedness by fornicating with David's concubine in public display not perverse and unnatural, according to the Law, even though opposite sexes were involved?

Or in 1 Corinthians 5, that a young man was fornicating and committing adultery with his father's wife? This is not perverse and unnatural, though opposite sexes were involved?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Or in 1 Corinthians 5, that a young man was fornicating and committing adultery with his father's wife? This is not perverse and unnatural, though opposite sexes were involved?

Or the fact that is quite possible that Abijam fornicated with his own mother and conceived Asa (See 1 Kings 15:1-2 and 9-10). If so, is this not perverse and unnatural, even though opposite sexes were involved?

[votivesoul]

All of these examples, and more, are just as perverse and unnatural same sex attractions.