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Originally Posted by Esaias
How does a person choose without yielding?
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You missed the very distinct point I made about yielding. It is not just yielding. It is yielding to God as ONE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD. When we read
Romans 6 we realize SAVED PEOPLE to whom Paul wrote did not know they were dead to sin. He taught them their baptism into Christ caused them to die with Christ so as to free them from sin. And being made free from sin, there was no need for them to lower the level of how victorious we are to a mere level of sinning so grace may abound. Paul said to conclude we sin so grace may abound was so far below the Romans' standing, but they did not know better since they had never learned what death with Christ was all about.
So, once Paul explains we're dead with Christ to sin, we need not yield to sin any more. We yield to God AS THOSE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, which takes into consideration all Paul said about being dead to sin. And just like believers in Rome who knew nothing about death to sin through Christ, believers today do not know it either if it hasn't been taught to them. So, you cannot yiild as ONE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD if you do not understand first that you are dead to sin and THEN ALIVE IN RESURRECTION LIFE with Christ.
You're taking "Yield yourselves unto God" out of the context of doing so as those alive from the dead. And when you do that, it sounds like we are being told to yield to God for his will JUST BY CHOICE. But when you see the context of death to sin and the NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT, then RECKON IT you will then be able to know what YIELDING to God as those alive from the dead means and you will know it's more than "YIELD TO GOD."
It's not about yielding to God. It's about yielding to him AS THOSE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD.
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Paul said AS YOU HAVE YIELDED YOURSELVES TO SIN...YIELD YOURSELVES TO GOD.
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No, it is more than that. You cannot yield to God properly if you do not understand what the ALIVE UNTO GOD part means. You're removing the context of the "death to sin" teaching in all the verses before verse 13.
And another thing... believers who think they can only have as much victory as sinning so grace may abound, did not know they were YIELDING to sin. To think we will evermore sin is not to think in terms of yielding. It is to think there is no other option. Yielding makes it an option. And when Paul began teaching them how they're dead to sin and do not need to let sin rule, let alone sin so grace may abound, they finally learned it was an option. Sinners do not have the option. But saints do!
And the idea of YIELDING also includes the concept of a GREATER POWER. Sin is a force, but so is God. And God is greater! And we yield to God as those alive from the dead by realizing we're dead to sin, and don't have to see it dominate us any more because of the work of the cross, and therefore have faith that as Christ was resurrected from the dead, THE SAME SPIRIT will EMPOWER us while we're still in mortal bodies to overcome sin! That's how
Romans 8:10-11 falls in line with
Romans 6:13.
The Spirit cannot empower us if we try to coerce ourselves to obey God's law. Our fleshly ability is not enough to overcome the force of sin in that same flesh. But we're freed from the power of sin by the work of the cross. However, WE NEED FAITH in that for God to work. And when God sees us yield to Him for that empowerment AS THOSE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, He knows we fully understand how much HE set us free (and not ourselves), and He gets all the glory (for we don't think we can make ourselves do it in our own fleshly strength any more). And as a result, HE EMPOWERS!
Romans 6:13 is informing us God will not empower us by His Spirit, like
Romans 8:1`0-11 says, unless we stop living like the cross was not necessary. When we have no thoughts of the need for the Spirit's empowerment as per 8:10-11, we will no yield to God. And God will not empower. But it is not just yielding It is yielding as THOSE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD .
No. It is more than that. People who CHOOSE to do what is right, can try to fulfil that choice all they want. But yielding to God is not just choosing to obey His law like you're making it out to be. It is yielding to Him for the sake of being empowered to overcome sin. And you won't know you're a candidate for anything like that to happen if you first do not know you're dead to sin, so that YOU QUALIFY for the resurrecting power of the same Spirit that raised up Christ from the dead! When you are convinced you have a FULL RIGHT for the Spirit of resurrection to "resurrect"your life over the power of sin, because you fully know you died with Christ and know it only stands to reason you will LIVE with Him OVER SINFUL LIVING, you will yield to God as ONE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, and wait with wings as eagles for the Spirit to lift you above the low lifestyle of being forced to sin.
Seriously,
Romans 8:11 is what happens with we yield the way 6:13 is telling us to. Thinking it's only a description of CHOICE in 6:13 robs you of all the awareness of how
Rom 8:11 occurs, and how to see it occur in our lives.
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Previously, we chose to serve sin. Now, we are to choose to serve God. And the only way that works is by the power of the Holy Ghost applying the cross to our lives.
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It's that, yes. BUT SO MUCH MORE!
It's seeing resurrection power of the Spirit empower our mortal bodies so we do not sin, just as sin ruled in our mortal bodies when we never knew this truth, and never yielded to God as those alive from the dead.
The LIVING that
Romans 6:8 is speaking about...
Rom 6:8 KJV....Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
...is overcoming sin by resurrection power. And that is the power of the SPIRIT. The SPIRIT
resurrected Christ. And we see Him "resurrect" us, so to speak, when He empowers us to see the force of sin defeated in our lives.
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Romans 7 describes the unregenerate Jew.
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That, yes, AND MORE!
It is also the repentant believer who DOES NOT KNOW the Spirit can empower them to overcome sin, and only tries his or her best to make themselves stop sinning. It is US trying to make ourselves NOT SIN.
That's why we read this:
Rom 7:6 KJV....But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Serving God in oldness of the letter is what you're talking about. It is what Paul described in the remainder of the chapter. AND CHRISTIANS DO THAT ALL THE TIME.
They CHOOSE to SERVE GOD, but they do not realize it's more than the choice to serve God. It is HOW we serve Him that is the issue. And too many do not know there is a breakdown in HOW we serve God. That's why Paul is writing this to Roman believers! He's not pointing his finger with all his congregation and laughing at how Jewish people who are unrepentant are missing the cross. He is dealing with CHRISTIANS who think they only have the hope of sinning so grace may abound. That whole context is missed otherwise.
And by teaching them they can tap into the power of the Spirit instead of living as though there is no power from on high just like it was under the old covenant, (which is serving God by the oldness of the letter), he informs them there is another WAY to serve God. Newness of the Spirit. And that is the Spirit quickening their mortal flesh so they do not sin.
This is for believers, Bro. Not unrepentant Jews:
Rom 8:11-12 KJV....But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. ..(12)....Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Why does Paul say we are not debtors to live after the flesh as a reason for the Spirit quickening our mortal bodies? it is because the whole stretch of
Romans 6 through 8 is about believers -- not unrepentant Jews -- who do not understand the Resurrecting power of the Spirit that raised Jesus can empower us in resurrection life to overcome SIN!
That's why
Romans 6:10 says CHRIST DIED TO SIN. He is telling Romans they are DEAD TO SIN, too. So they do not need to be sinning like they were. If you restrict
Romans 7 to unrepentant Jews, you never help the believers in the church who struggle with sin, and who do not understand they do not have to struggle like that,
Christ is dead to sin, so HE LIVES by the Spirit that resurrected Him unto God. LIKEWISE, we are dead to sin and alive to God so that GOD CAN EMPOWER US to overcome sin like He raised up Christ!
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A Christian living in Romans 7 is at best living in ignorance of the true power of the Gospel. "According to your faith be it unto you."
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No. When a Christian understands the gospel, chooses to serve God, but does not learn he or she needs the empowerment of the Spirit to overcome sin, and does not know they are dead to sin to have a right for that empowerment of the Spirit over it, they will fail and fail and fail. It is NOT about not making the decision. Serving by oldness of the letter is CHOOSING to serve God, Esaias. It is just bound to more failure, though, despite the choice until a person learns what serving God by newness of the Spirit means. And that means the Spirit "resurrecting" us to live an overcoming life,
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You and I are not that far apart on this issue, really I'm thinking it's more semantics than anything else.
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Partly, but in all humility about this I received one of the most blessed revelations about the issue more than likely any other revelation I ever got. THIS is precisely my most favourite issue. I wrote more books about it and preached sermons about it more than anything else.
There's more of this in the context than what we perhaps allow... and without this understanding we disjoint 7:6 from 8:11 and 6:13. I have much to learn, but it's in my spirit and wanting to get more into my actual living. But I've come a long way from where my CHRSTIANITY used to be! Like I said, I LIVED it having the CHOICE but failing like Paul described.!
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