More On Beards

[Aquila]

Here's a pick from almost ten years ago.... lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by houston

Close enough. People change a lot in 3 yrs. to make an honest assessment, take a pic now... shave- and take another pic.

I might do that. Or at least take a pic after I trim it down real close. Here's me right now... I was outside a few minutes ago, so I'm a little wind blown. lol

[BrainWashed]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I might do that. Or at least take a pic after I trim it down real close. Here's me right now... I was outside a few minutes ago, so I'm a little wind blown. lol

Aquila,

By looking at you, I see you're a firearm guy! What's your favorite firearm?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Oh, come on. You know that many pastors have taught this down through the years. They've backed off of it as the internet has allowed greater ability to study and share information.

No you come on. I have never heard anyone call it sinful.

Backed off it because of the Internet?

Is that because your only reference is the internet?

How many churches have to been in across the United States?

How many ministers do you know who have told you that beards are a sin?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

One of Sr. Pastor Huss Shearer's favorite statements was "...you'll bust Hell wide open." He applied this to women wearing pants, cutting the hair, men in shorts, makeup, jewelry (he didn't even permit wedding bands), men wearing beards ("It's a spirit of rebellion!" was often said with this one), owning a television and early on he said it about the internet, but backed off of it as it became more and more widely used as a part of people's work. He'd pound that altar and weep over how people would go to Hell over these things.

Now, he was my first pastor. Believe it or not, though he was hard, he was also so very tender and kind to me. I loved him dearly. He was patient and made living by those standards inspiring.



But the pastors I have had after his passing were cold, commanding, demanding adherence, instant compliance, with an iron fist. There is one exception. A pastor in Beavercreek teaches these standards not as "holiness standards" but as "Christian disciplines". He has a platform policy, but application of the standards is largely left upon the individual. So, you might see a rather conservative looking individual worshipping right next to someone who has a beard and his wife cut hair. He asks that women wear dresses and skirts to church, even if they occasionally wear them while at home or at work. His principles are very balanced, loving, and spiritual. If I returned to the UPCI, and occasionally I do think about it, his church would be the one I'd choose to go to.

Could you clarify something?

The guy asks women to wear dresses to church?

That would be the place you would attend if you returned to the UPC?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

Aquila,

By looking at you, I see you're a firearm guy! What's your favorite firearm?

While I don't own one right now, I really like the Springfield XD .45acp

I attempted to purchase a firearm once after I ETSed from the Army. The LORD checked me at the counter as I was looking at the weapon. So, I politely thanked the clerk and left.

Although the Springfield XD is my current favorite, I have a special place reserved in the armory of my heart for the 9mm Beretta. As a 19K and 91B10 in the military, it was my weapon of specialty.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Could you clarify something?

The guy asks women to wear dresses to church?

That would be the place you would attend if you returned to the UPC?

Yes. I don't entirely agree with him on every point. But I know his heart is in the right place.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes. I don't entirely agree with him on every point. But I know his heart is in the right place.

You don't have a problem with a someone asking women to wear dresses to church?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You don't have a problem with a someone asking women to wear dresses to church?

No. Absolutely not.

What I have a problem with is someone telling a woman that she'll burn in Hell if she doesn't wear a dress, that her salvation is questionable if she doesn't wear a dress, or that she's not in good standing with the church if she doesn't wear a dress. I find that to be legalistic.

This pastor simply asks that women wear dresses because he believes that dresses (or skirts) are more modest than pants and that women should seek the highest degree of Christian modesty; especially if they attend corporate worship.

Most women honor his request, even if they prefer to wear pants at home and/or at work. Those who don't aren't treated badly, threatened with Hell, or berated in any way. You realize it is the pastor's request, it isn't treated like a biblical mandate. And it isn't about "holiness" either, it's he considers modesty a Christian discipline. Holiness is regarded as a disposition of one's heart, no matter what they're wearing.

He's a very loving and principled UPCI pastor.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No. Absolutely not.

What I have a problem with is someone telling a woman that she'll burn in Hell if she doesn't wear a dress, that her salvation is questionable if she doesn't wear a dress, or that she's not in good standing with the church if she doesn't wear a dress. I find that to be legalistic.

Yet, he is still telling these women to do something based on his own preferences. He believes the women who are not wearing dresses should wear a dress next time they come to service, because as you have posted they're immodest. It is now made into a religious issue based on the leader's idea of what is modest.

Originally Posted by Aquila

This pastor simply asks that women wear dresses because he believes that dresses (or skirts) are more modest than pants and that women should seek the highest degree of Christian modesty; especially if they attend corporate worship.

There you go. The women in the congregation who wear pants are immodest and are of low degree. Not coming up to the "highest degree" of Christain standard of modesty? Therefore if they come to practice the religion at the religious center of gathering, they should get dressed up in religious robes. But, you don't see that as legalism, because he doesn't tell them they are going to hell?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Most women honor his request, even if they prefer to wear pants at home and/or at work.

Of course they do, because he is teaching them legalism.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Those who don't aren't treated badly, threatened with Hell, or berated in any way. You realize it is the pastor's request, it isn't treated like a biblical mandate.

You just post to see what kind of reaction you get from people. Sad.

But anyway, treated badly? Why should he or anyone else treat them badly? He is telling them to wear saffron robes, smear yellow, with a red dot on their forehead. They are told to wear a wig instead of a veil, they are told to wear the hijab before Jumu'ah at the masjid. Bro, that's legalism, that is doing something religious but not believing in it. This is what I have been saying over and over again. Telling people you love them and not loving them is legalism. Telling your father you are going out to the field and NEVER doing it is legalism. Yet, the son who said no but went anyway later was considered the true believer. You think just because they are threatened with hell it's legalism? Then you haven't a clue to what legalism really is, it is religious worship as going through the motions without having any true connections with the ONE you are supposed to be connected to? Not the man in the pulpit telling you that he would like everyone to wear white. Also forget your arguments about preachers who have no Bible but ask men to shave. You just vindicated those hombres. Because if it is ok, for your preacher to ask women to dress like Emma Bontrager before entering his temple. Therefore in the very same act a brother can ask a man to shave his beard off. Because of whatever reason he so chooses.

Originally Posted by Aquila

And it isn't about "holiness" either, it's he considers modesty a Christian discipline. Holiness is regarded as a disposition of one's heart, no matter what they're wearing.

It isn't about anything short of a religious leader telling people they need to wear the big buffalo hat when they come to the water buffalo lodge.
It is the highest level of Christian discipline? But it isn't in their heart? Bro, if legalism was a semi truck going down I-95 in the dark and hit you dead in the face, you still wouldn't know what legalism really means.

Originally Posted by Aquila

He's a very loving and principled UPCI pastor.

Of course, because he meets whatever requirement you have for the day.
If he was to tell you to do something before entering his building, then we would see your evaluation change.