Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

[Sean]

I can see the living saints now, burying all the bodies of these billions and foraging for their existence for years......not.
__________________

Michael, Esaias and Originalist.

Do you guys work for mortuary's?

If so, you should set up a system now called the "Grave Diggers Church".




LOL

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist

If the Trib is a 7 year period of cataclysmic wrath that begins in Chapter 6, then how could there even be a functioning society? There would be nothing for the Anti-Christ to reign over. One major,yet localized catastrophe in the present time, like a city being destroyed by nuclear terrorism, would bring the world economy to its knees. Imagine dozens of them happening at the same time for 7 years. But the fools who insist that Revelation is written in chronological order don't seem to grasp this.

Better than thinking that the end of the world is found in Chapter 1(post tribbers read the book backwards)....LOL

[n david]

Originally Posted by Originalist

This is a common misconception of the post-trib position. I used to make the same claim when I was pre-trib. But I realize now I was wrong. The post-trib position is that the Tribulation is not a period of constant wrath. The wrath comes AFTER the Tribulation. Thus, we do not believe that the church endures the wrath of God. Within post-trib eschatology there are varying opinions on just how long the wrath lasts, but the consensus is that it is a brief period of time.

Nor will the church. As Israel was protected, so will we be protected. It is fine to disagree with the post-trib position, but one should not mischaracterize it after having learned the actual position.

Since Revelation isn't written in chronological order, what do you believe the order is below? I've read various views about the seals, trumpets and bowls, most believing the church will be here during the first six seals, but not after the sixth because after that "the great day of His wrath is come."

Some believe the seventh seal and seventh trumpet are the same, though the seventh bowl is not.

It's clear the trumpets begin immediately after the seventh seal is opened: "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

Seven Seals
(Pre-wrath) First Seal: Rider on the White horse establishes a one-world government
(Pre-wrath) Second Seal: World War
(Pre-wrath) Third Seal: World Famine
(Pre-wrath) Fourth Seal: 1/4 of the world will die
(Pre-wrath) Fifth Seal: Innumerable numbers martyred
(Pre-wrath) Sixth Seal: Great earthquake "great day of His wrath is come..."
(Wrath) Seventh Seal: Thunderings, Lightnings and an Earthquake

Seven Trumpets
(Wrath) First Trumpet: Hail and Blood Fire
(Wrath) Second Trumpet: Mountain of Fire/Sea becomes blood
(Wrath) Third Trumpet: Wormwood
(Wrath) Fourth Trumpet: Darkness
(Wrath) Fifth Trumpet: Locusts and Scorpions
(Wrath) Sixth Trumpet: 1/3 of the earth will die
(Wrath) Seventh Trumpet: Lightnings, Thunderings, Earthquake and great Hail

Seven Vials (Bowls)
(Wrath) First Vial: Boils
(Wrath) Second Vial: Sea turned to blood
(Wrath) Third Vial: Rivers and fountains turned to blood
(Wrath) Fourth Vial: Heat
(Wrath) Fifth Vial: Darkness
(Wrath) Sixth Vial: Euphrates dried
(Wrath) Seventh Vial: Great Earthquake

[Sean]

But the Lord returns in Chapter 19, so you need to remove and stuff the Chapter in between 4 and 5......LOL

[Sean]

You will never figure out Rev. unless you read it in chronological order.

Never.

[Sean]

The pre-tribber....


Revelation 4King James Version (KJV)

4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter





Post tribber...


After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be WHENEVER

[Amanah]

for the sake of study

“The Rapture,” A Bad Term?
It may come a surprise to some that the word “rapture” is not in the Bible.2 When we realize that Scripture does not speak of the rapture but rather says that at the coming of the Lord we will be raptured (caught up), it sheds new light on the discussion. It is misleading to speak of the rapture and then to ask when the rapture will take place. The Bible only mentions the coming of the Lord and says that when he comes we will be caught up together to meet him. But pre-tribulationists start by talking about the rapture and the second coming as if they were two separate events and then claim that post-tribulationists confuse the two. The fact is, however, that the Bible does not make this distinction. Instead, it uses the word “coming” (parousia) when we would expect to see the word “rapture” if indeed this were a different event.

It is also interesting to note that the New Testament does use at least two other words to describe the return of our Lord, and once again no distinction is made. They are: apokalupsis, “revelation” and epiphaneia, “appearing.” Both of these Greek words are used as the hope of the church (1 Cor. 1:7; 2 Tim. 4:1,8; Titus 2:13; 1 Peter 1:7,13; 4:13) and in clear second coming passages (2 Thess. 1:7; 2:8).3 It would seem very strange then for the writers of the New Testament to use at least three different words interchangeably to describe two different events that are separated by seven years. In other words, it would be confusing to use these three words to speak of two different events without distinguishing the two events. We would expect them to use different words for different events (such as rapture and second coming maybe?). How are we able to distinguish what Scripture does not?



http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/po...Arnold-III.pdf

[Amanah]

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
When we take a closer look at our “rapture passage,” we see that Paul is not describing a new event but is explaining that at the coming of the Lord the dead will be raised.

Notice how he begins his thought in verse 13, “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.” This sets the tone for what he is about to discuss. It is what he will be addressing, his “thesis statement” if you will. We then see him develop his theme of the dead in Christ as he goes on:

[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. [15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. [16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. [17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. [18] Therefore comfort one another with these words. [1 Thess. 4:14-18]

Paul‟s point to the believers at Thessalonica is that they need not worry about their dead loved ones. Jesus will resurrect them when he returns. He says that this will take place at “the coming of the Lord.” There is no hint that this is any different than the coming which everyone was expecting–the one that Jesus told his apostles would take place “after the tribulation” (Matt. 24:29). We would also expect that the eschatology Jesus taught them would be the same as what Paul was teaching, unless we have reason to believe differently.

It is primarily this lack of evidence for multiple comings that is the basis for post-tribulationism. When it is realized that there is only one coming, post- is the only position. All agree that Christ is coming after the Tribulation, so if there is only one coming (or one stage of his coming as some prefer to call it), then the rapture must occur after the Tribulation.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/po...Arnold-III.pdf

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/po...Arnold-III.pdf

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

Did you beat your wife last night?

You know, I GUARANTEE you don't talk like this in person.

Hope you grow up, Snowflake. Just be careful in the real world, people like you have a habit of letting their smart mouths write checks their hind ends can't cash.

[Sean]

John 14:18


I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.




.....multiple comings are a fact.