Salvation depends on doctrine!

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I find it interesting that those who claim we must have absolute doctrinal purity on every possible doctrinal position always assert that they are absolutely right about every doctrinal position they hold.

Yet... a good number of them have changed their position on various issues in the past ten years... and will continue doing so as they learn more about various topics. It's always their currently held set of doctrinal interpretations they claim are absolutely right. lol

So if one repents of doctrinal error and embraces truth, theres something wrong with that?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I find it interesting that those who claim we must have absolute doctrinal purity on every possible doctrinal position always assert that they are absolutely right about every doctrinal position they hold.

Yet... a good number of them have changed their position on various issues in the past ten years... and will continue doing so as they learn more about various topics. It's always their currently held set of doctrinal interpretations they claim are absolutely right. lol

Straw man. Nobody here is claiming anything more than what the Scriptures actually say, although some (you included) seem to be claiming a lot less than what the Scriptures actually say.

Always amuses me how people misrepresent things in order to provide cover for disregarding Bible truth.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Probably, Let no man deceive you by any means........

Amen

[votivesoul]

There is no refutation for what Esaias has posted. NONE! Even if you take away his comments, and just line up the verses of Holy Scripture he has gathered and made available in the original post, the answer is clear.

For this reason, I quote from and remind us all of the following:

Grace is a teacher!

Titus 2:11-12a,

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us...

Rabbi Jesus, by the saving grace and truth that was in Him (John 1:17), is fully able, through the Holy Spirit of Truth, to help us overcome our own errors and carnal tendencies. The trick, if you will, is to know how to recognize that small, still voice, and hear what the Word of the Lord says. Many, quiet, humble men and women of God have had a simple word or two from the Holy One turn their world upside down.

Let us be patient, apt to teach, and do those things which make for peace. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the CHILDREN OF GOD.

Peace takes on many forms, but one of the main ways is when two or more brothers or sisters can come together and discuss their differences without rage, animosity, competitiveness, or pride, and together help each other come to a fuller understanding of the Holy Scriptures.

Too many people get in their own way in trying to communicate their understanding of truth, and would find, if they could tone down the approach, and be more amicable in their sharing, the message wouldn't get rejected so much.

Enter the teacher, who, as Paul wrote, is supposed to be GENTLE and NOT STRIVE...

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by votivesoul

There is no refutation for what Esaias has posted. NONE! Even if
you take away his comments, and just line up the verses of Holy Scripture he has gathered and
made available in the original post, the answer is clear.
For this reason, I quote from and remind us all of the following: Grace is a teacher! Titus 2:11-12a,
Rabbi Jesus, by the saving grace and truth that was in Him (John 1:17), is fully able, through the
Holy Spirit of Truth, to help us overcome our own errors and carnal tendencies. The trick, if
you will, is to know how to recognize that small, still voice, and hear what the Word of the Lord says.
Many, quiet, humble men and women of God have had a simple word or two from the Holy One turn
their world upside down. Let us be patient, apt to teach, and do those things which make for peace.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called the CHILDREN OF GOD. Peace takes on many forms, but one of the main ways is
when two or more brothers or sisters can come together and discuss their differences without rage,
animosity, competitiveness, or pride, and together help each other come to a fuller understanding of
the Holy Scriptures. Too many people get in their own way in trying to communicate their understanding
truth, and would find, if they could tone down the approach, and be more amicable in their sharing,
the message wouldn't get rejected so much.
Enter the teacher, who, as Paul wrote, is supposed to be GENTLE and NOT STRIVE...

I LIKE IT.

Brother Villa

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So if one repents of doctrinal error and embraces truth, theres something wrong with that?

No. However, are we to believe that one was "unsaved" until they came to a greater or correct understanding of a given teaching of Scripture?

Our knowledge and understanding grows with time, study, and contemplation.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Straw man. Nobody here is claiming anything more than what the Scriptures actually say, although some (you included) seem to be claiming a lot less than what the Scriptures actually say.

I used to be a Pre-Trib Dispensationalist. And... I would have stated that the doctrines I had learned were what the Scriptures actually say. The seasoned student of Scripture will realize that the Scriptures can be understood in many different ways, as presenting many different interpretations. There are over 40,000 denominations of Christianity... each declaring that what they believe is what the Scriptures plainly say.

Always amuses me how people misrepresent things in order to provide cover for disregarding Bible truth.

And... if you have an epiphany and radically change your views on something in the future, are you going to tell me that as of right now, you're "unsaved"?

After all, the title of this thread is, "Salvation depends on doctrine!"

[Aquila]

There can be no learning or growth without error.

Clearly if one has been born again many decades, we should expect that their knowledge of Scripture is more clear and deeper than the understanding of one who has been born again for only a week. Both are clearly born again, saved. And both will continue to grow and refine their understandings, discarding errors, and embracing greater understandings.

I've evolved from the traditional Pre-Trib Dispensational position to more Post Trib Covenantal theology, and even now I'm learning and studying Preterism. I was also a born in the wool legalist who believed in institutional religion. Today, I'm more of a Christian Anarchist. Was I "unsaved" prior to my current understanding?

[MarieA27]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No. However, are we to believe that one was "unsaved" until they came to a greater or correct understanding of a given teaching of Scripture?

Our knowledge and understanding grows with time, study, and contemplation.

Aquila, you're looking at it wrong. It's not that they are unsaved until they are given a teaching of scripture. If they were living all the truth that they knew they would be saved based off that, but when they are presented with new truth, and if they reject it, what they did before would be in vain, and whatever they did thereafter would be in vain as well. But if they accept the new truth, they would be saved.

It's the same as with the example of Apostle Paul. That while he was out the preaching for 14+ years, doing the work of God, but he was in error in a sense because he didn't have the right hand of fellowship with Peter. But he wasn't wrong in a sense because it wasn't revealed to him.

But when it was revealed to him, he said that all that he did before, and thereafter would have been in vain if he didn't obey and follow what was revealed to him.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

Aquila, you're looking at it wrong. It's not that they are unsaved until they are given a teaching of scripture. If they were living all the truth that they knew they would be saved based off that, but when they are presented with new truth, and if they reject it, what they did before would be in vain, and whatever they did thereafter would be in vain as well. But if they accept the new truth, they would be saved.

It's the same as with the example of Apostle Paul. That while he was out the preaching for 14+ years, doing the work of God, but he was in error in a sense because he didn't have the right hand of fellowship with Peter. But he wasn't wrong in a sense because it wasn't revealed to him.

But when it was revealed to him, he said that all that he did before, and thereafter would have been in vain if he didn't obey and follow what was revealed to him.

I see it a little differently.

To be saved one must believe that they are a sinner and that they need the salvation provided by Jesus Christ. They must believe that Jesus is God and that His death, burial, and resurrection was to provide for our Atonement and Propitiation. One must respond to this knowledge by repenting, being water baptized, and filled with the Spirit. Only through this can one experience Conversion unto Justification, Identification, Regeneration, and finally, Adoption. Once one is a child of God, they are saved. This is being "born again".

Now, as it might relate to growing in knowledge and understanding, that takes time, prayer, and study. There will be a learning curve at first because one must learn how to study the Bible. There will be times of discovering great revelations not previously known. Our knowledge is refined through study, prayer, and discussion.

Now, there are errors that can cost one their soul. For example, any doctrine that denies that Christ is God. Any doctrine that teaches that one need not give their lives over to Christ exclusively for salvation. Any doctrine that denies the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Any doctrine that teaches that one doesn't have to obey the Gospel and be water baptized. Any doctrine that teaches that one need to aspire to Christlikeness. These errors will indeed endanger the soul.

So, here's a break down of how I see it. Please note, I'm sure many more topics can be added to these categories.

Must Believe (Fundamental Disposition) (SALVIFIC)
That one is a sinner.
That salvation is provided only in Christ Jesus.

Must Not Reject (Issues that must be embraced by faith) (SALVIFIC)
Jesus is God
Obedience to Acts 2:38 (born again)
Holiness (Christlikeness)

Should Believe (Issues that should be rather clear with study) (Effects Salvation)
Bible is God's Word
Church is the body of Christ
Christian Disciplines (prayer, modesty, fasting, study, meditation)
Spiritual Gifts
Creation
Bodily Return of Christ
Judgment with the righteous rewarded and the wicked punished


Can Believe or not believe (Issues subject to interpretation and/or debate) (Effects Practice)
Various theories about the Rapture (Pre, Mid, Pre-Wrath, Post)
Various theories about interpreting prophecy (Futurism, Preterism, Historicism, Idealism)
Various theories about the nature of death, heaven, hell (Soul Sleep, Afterlife, Apocatastasis, etc.)
Various theories about church structure (Pastorate, Congregationalist, Eldership, etc.)
Various theories about finer points of Creation doctrine (Literal, Day Age, Gap Theory)
Jewish feast days (or not)
7th Day Sabbath (or no Sabbath)
Various applications of Law
Various applications of Grace
Various modesty standards as determined by elders
Various dietary requirements (or none at all)
Not participating in cultural holidays (or participating in cultural holidays)