Apostoic worship??

[Amanah]

I thinking "soaking" is akin to contemplation which is similar to eastern meditation, whereas Christian meditation is meditating on the word of God. The first has you emptying your mind, the latter has you focusing your mind on the Word.

[Aquila]

The following Scriptures are of value when discussing prayer and meditation (soaking prayer):

Ps. 23: 1-3 – “The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul;”

Ps. 131:2 — “Surely I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with his mother. Like a weaned child is my soul within me.”

Ps. 42:7 & 8 – “Deep calls to deep in the roar of your waterfalls; all your waves & breakers have swept over me. By day the Lord directs His love, at night His song is with me – a prayer to the God of my life.”


Ps. 63:1 – 3 – “O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water. I have seen you in the sanctuary and beheld your power and your glory. Because your love is better than life, my lips will glorify You.”

Zeph. 3:17 – “The Lord your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing.”

Ps. 4:4 — “Meditate within your heart on your bed, and be still.”

Isa. 30:15 — “For thus says the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel: ‘In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength’.”

Ps. 37:7 — “Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him.”

Matt. 11:28-30 — “Come to Me, all you who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Isa. 40:29-31 — “He gives power to the weak, and to those who have no might He increases strength. Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall, but those who wait on the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint.”

Hos. 2:14 — “Therefore, behold, I will allure her (God’s people), I will bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfort to her.”

Exodus 14:14 — “The Lord will fight for you; you need only to be still.”

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I thinking "soaking" is akin to contemplation which is similar to eastern meditation, whereas Christian meditation is meditating on the word of God. The first has you emptying your mind, the latter has you focusing your mind on the Word.

What do you believe Christians contemplate when engaged in contemplative prayer?

[Aquila]

I remember being told that Christians struggle with the word "meditation" because the word is predominantly used in Eastern religions and the practice is at their core. Meditation is typically a term used to describe a state of being wherein one has not only stilled the mind, but silenced it, so that one experiences the moment, the present without the burden of background thoughts being concerned about the future, or agonizing over the past. And since Christian meditation is predicated upon contemplating the Scriptures, God, or doctrinal truth, the term "Contemplative prayer" best describes the Christian practice of meditation.

But... as we can see... the term "contemplative prayer" is also something that frightens most Christians.

Are we to meditate upon the Scriptures without meditating? Are we to contemplate the Scriptures, God, or doctrinal truths and not call it "contemplation"?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you remember which song?

Yes

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What do you believe Christians contemplate when engaged in contemplative prayer?

smh

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias;1516090[QUOTE

]Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Therefore, there is no such thing as genuine faith that is not derived from the word of God. Our worship must be done in faith. Whatever is without faith, is sin. Therefore, our worship is sin if it is without faith. Which in turn means it must be biblical, indeed it must be biblically directed and biblically informed, otherwise it cannot be in faith. And without faith it is impossible to please God.

I think you took my statement too far left so I am going answer you too far right.

Faith is our response to the word of God. How many new converts has the entire Bible memorized first before they begin to worshp God. Could it be that this word of God is still living and is more than just ink on paper. Paul had no precedents other than old testament scriptures (which were certainly enough). If people must wait until they find a chapter and a verse before they decide a proper method to worship God they would probably never start. Coincidentaly the Spirit leads people to worship in ways that they later discover has a Biblical precendent.

So I stand behind my original statement. There is no wrong way to worship so long as it is not done the flesh (that means it is led by the Spirit) and not sinful (so it cannot break any of the commandments of God), I don't see any error in my post, aside from maybe some grammatical.lol.

So, yes, we need to let God teach us how to worship him, and His divine revelation is the Bible. Therefore, our worship must be Bible based and Bible derived and Bible compliant.

So people must cognitavely have a scripture before they can respond by faith in worship. That sounds like what Jesus died to free us from. I agree that the Bible is divine revelataion and we should search the scriptures daily. I don't believe we must legalistically wait to find an exact scripture to do an act of worship. Many have had the Spirit to speak to their hearts before the scripture was instilled into their minds.

The Spirit is not given in order to justify us in doing whatever we feel like doing. The Spirit is given in order to lead us and guide us into all truth ("Thy word is truth" Jesus said). The Spirit is given to direct our heart and life, empowering us to live a life of God manifestation. Meaning the life of God manifesting in and through our life, our actions, our worship, everything we do. The Spirit enables us to experience what the Bible reveals.

The question is must the Bible reveal before the Spirit can lead. the Spirit will not lead someone in a wrong way to worship. My initial statement was not meant to suggest that the Spirit the Spirit works like that.

There most certainly are wrong ways to worship God. Jesus said the Pharisees' worship was in vain, it was empty, pointless, useless, and unacceptable to God. Why? Because they taught as doctrine the commandments of men. In other words, they took their own ideas and taught them as though they were the ideas of God, acceptable to God, the proper method to serve God, etc. That man-made worship of God is declared by Jesus to be vain. He said they were hypocrites, they honoured God with their mouths but their hearts were far away from God. Why? What determined that to be the case? It was because their religion, their worship, was man created, it was not God created. It was man directed, not God directed. It was of man, not of God.

The pharisees worship was empty and wrong because it was not done in Spirit and in truth. When our worship is genunine and motivated by the Spirit, it immediately becomes becomes biblical. I hope you really don't think people should should wait to clap their hands until they find it in the Bible.lol.

What is "of God"? that which God has revealed through His word. It must be this way, because apart from the Scripture there is no way to identify what is truly of God.

When I came to God it was with very limited Bible knowledge, (I am still a pupil) but I recognized the touch of God without immediate written instrutions. I personnaly believe if the the government took all of our Bibles away tommorrow the word of God would still remain.

Our salvation must match the salvation described in the Bible. Our faith must match the faith described in the Bible. Our worship, likewise, must match the worship described in the Bible.

Otherwise, we are just doing our own thing and presuming God is pleased with it, with no evidence such is actually the case.

I agree that we must be aligned with the Word of God, but allowing God's Spirit to guide us will not contradict that. I am sure are views are very similar, but have different ways of explaning.

The rest of your post was spot on.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I remember being told that Christians struggle with the word "meditation" because the word is predominantly used in Eastern religions and the practice is at their core. Meditation is typically a term used to describe a state of being wherein one has not only stilled the mind, but silenced it, so that one experiences the moment, the present without the burden of background thoughts being concerned about the future, or agonizing over the past. And since Christian meditation is predicated upon contemplating the Scriptures, God, or doctrinal truth, the term "Contemplative prayer" best describes the Christian practice of meditation.

But... as we can see... the term "contemplative prayer" is also something that frightens most Christians.

Are we to meditate upon the Scriptures without meditating? Are we to contemplate the Scriptures, God, or doctrinal truths and not call it "contemplation"?

[good samaritan]

soaking prayer???? Why do people have to go and put hokey pokey labels on everything. I try to soak up everything I can everytime I pray. I don't need a checklist to pray or worship.

music volume..... check
lighting........ check
comfortable seating ...... check
etc.... this has all gotten ridiculous and fake. People are trying to counterfeit only what God can do. I am not against technology and modern conveniences, but I will not give God that which cost me nothing. True worship comes at a price and I am not talking about purchasing the latest sound equip.

[n david]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

soaking prayer???? Why do people have to go and put hokey pokey labels on everything. I try to soak up everything I can everytime I pray. I don't need a checklist to pray or worship.

music volume..... check
lighting........ check
comfortable seating ...... check
etc.... this has all gotten ridiculous and fake. People are trying to counterfeit only what God can do. I am not against technology and modern conveniences, but I will not give God that which cost me nothing. True worship comes at a price and I am not talking about purchasing the latest sound equip.

You needn't purchase expensive sound equipment. Apparently candles and a hot bath are good as well.