The Gates of Hell?

[Esaias]

In the other thread an idea was put forward: Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the church, and this means there would be a continuous, visible, historically identifiable church on the earth for all time from the apostles' days to the present. (By the term "church" I mean an assembly of truly regenerate believers holding correct doctrine regarding salvation.)

I deny that is what Jesus meant.

I challenge those who believe that to come here and prove it. Prove that the gates of hell not prevailing against the church = a continuous, visible, historical church from the 1st century till now, and identify that church for us.

Then, I will refute your argument(s). In the process, I will prove what He meant, from Scripture.

[Truthseeker]

Do you believe in the traditional view of hell? Literal place people burn for ever.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

In the other thread an idea was put forward: Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the church, and this means there would be a continuous, visible, historically identifiable church on the earth for all time from the apostles' days to the present. (By the term "church" I mean an assembly of truly regenerate believers holding correct doctrine regarding salvation.)

I deny that is what Jesus meant.

I challenge those who believe that to come here and prove it. Prove that the gates of hell not prevailing against the church = a continuous, visible, historical church from the 1st century till now, and identify that church for us.

Then, I will refute your argument(s). In the process, I will prove what He meant, from Scripture.

I don't believe we'd see a continuous, visible, historically identifiable church. Christ's church is Spiritual. I'd expect to see men within the historic visible, apostate, church persecuted for those very definable doctrines of Apostolic Pentecost. I'd also expect to see many divergent groups of various sizes coalescing around those very definable doctrines of Apostolic Pentecost. They would hold true doctrine, and maintain it until destroyed. But more would reemerge in very generation. Some might form close knit alliances to survive persecution. They would have also preserved and translated their Scriptures, maybe having a couple unique translations in competition with that of the Reformers. They would have even countered the Reformers during the Reformation, pleading that they embrace truth. We'd see this pattern of splinter groups, and maybe a couple older, more enduring groups, alive and well all the way up until the 1900's. The movement in the US would have been supported by them and would have beened welcomed among their number.

Not a single century would have passed without a solid witness of truth from many groups, holding Apostolic doctrine.

[Aquila]

We just don't see this at all in history.

[Esaias]

So, I guess that leaves JamesGlen to support the claim?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Do you believe in the traditional view of hell? Literal place people burn for ever.

I believe the Bible.

[Aquila]

We'd still have songs of our own in areas of the world that go back generations.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

We'd still have songs of our own in areas of the world that go back generations.

Since you don't want to support the claim, please don't spam the thread with one liners, like You Know Who.

[Esaias]

Originalist seemed to be supporting the claim, perhaps he'd like to make a go of it?

[Esaias]

Chris, quit sitting on the thread. We're making fun of you on the other one, hurry up.