"Beards are sin!" False doctrine?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Amanah

My husband has a beard, so hey.

Apostolic men unite! grow a beard!

[Amanah]

wasn't he teasing? he looks hairy to me.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Amanah

wasn't he teasing? he looks hairy to me.

Maybe? But if he cannot grow beyond that, or if there are a lot of gaps that aren't showing, then I can see how he means he wishes he could grow a beard.

Brother, if it's just gaps, don't fret it. As you grow, the rest of your beard will fill in around the gaps and then cover them up.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

No, Sister. I am saying that testosterone plays the key role in all of that happening, and part of making sure a man has a healthy level of testosterone is having the ability to grow facial hair. Apart from an injury, some other genetic defect, or ethnic reason, if a man cannot grow facial hair, his levels of testosterone, and in particular, DHT, are low. And low levels of testosterone lead to deficiencies in every other area of a man's life. Look up male androgens and hormonal balance for men.

The very fabric of male DNA is being deleted from the male population of our nation. And it's spiritual. And it needs to be resisted.

However, if a man has stubble coming in regularly but doesn't like or want it, and wants to remove it from his face, go for it. It's his choice. That's not a testosterone issue. But look at the young eighteen year old of today. Where is his facial hair? Does he even have any? Or does he have to borrow it from dad like he does dad's car?

Sis, I know you see it. Men are everywhere degraded in our society and culture. It ought not to be in the church. The culture of our nation degrades women just as much, and screams at Christian women who want to stay home, raise a family, be a helper and not a leader, and etc., and we say that the church must stand up against this onslaught on Biblical women-hood. As well we should. But we must stand up and say the same things regarding this onslaught on Biblical man-hood.

Votive Soul,

I was planning to make a post along these very lines. I was not at my computer and did not want to try to post so much content on my phone. I am SO GLAD that you beat me to the draw on this one, because I could have no way articulated as effectively as you have. I am going to try to reinforce what you have stated. I apologize in advance for diluting your message in any way. Here goes.

I thought I was the only one who could see what you describe in your post. When you speak of David's servants having their beards half shaven . . . Allow me to expound on that.

Bible, King James Version

2Sam.10 Verses 1 to 5

[1] And it came to pass after this, that the king of the children of Ammon died, and Hanun his son reigned in his stead.
[2] Then said David, I will shew kindness unto Hanun the son of Nahash, as his father shewed kindness unto me. And David sent to comfort him by the hand of his servants for his father. And David's servants came into the land of the children of Ammon.
[3] And the princes of the children of Ammon said unto Hanun their lord, Thinkest thou that David doth honour thy father, that he hath sent comforters unto thee? hath not David rather sent his servants unto thee, to search the city, and to spy it out, and to overthrow it?
[4] Wherefore Hanun took David's servants, and shaved off the one half of their beards, and cut off their garments in the middle, even to their buttocks, and sent them away.
[5] When they told it unto David, he sent to meet them, because the men were greatly ashamed: and the king said, Tarry at Jericho until your beards be grown, and then return.

Notice how the men were so ashamed. And David's reaction to their plight? Stay away until your beard grows out.

Why not just give them some clothes and let them shave the other half of their beard?

Because their beard was deeply connected to their man-hood!!!

Another situation occurs in . . .

Bible, King James Version


Deut.23
[1] He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

The man who had his manhood trampled on as you have described, would not even be allowed to be counted amongst the congregation of the LORD in the Old Testament.

Is our manhood important to God?

I think so. It is crucially important!

[n david]

Guess you're bored and decided to beat a dead horse, eh Aquila?

I've never heard beard preached as a sin. Period. I was born and raised in the UPCI, attending camp meetings, conventions, conferences and revival services in districts around the US. The church I attend now is UPC. Again, I've never heard it preached against as a sin.

Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story.

It's ridiculous that people will do anything an employer asks of them, dress how the employer demands they dress --- even to the point of shaving their beard if the company's dress code states they must be clean shaven --- and with no complaint!

But let a Pastor have a dress code for people participating on the platform and the complaints and accusations of false doctrine begin.

"Men who are being forced to shave to join, be a part of, participate, minister, or lead in a church, aren't fully men at all."

That's straight trash. God placed a Pastor to lead the church. If I'm attending that church, I should be willing to be obedient to the man God placed to lead that church. You claim men aren't really men if they follow a dress code. Absurd. Also, does this apply to secular employment as well? If an employer's dress code says men must be clean shaven, are they less a man for doing so. Gimme a break!

Again, let's review:
A Pastor may require a dress code for those who wish to be involved in ministry on the platform at the church God placed them to lead;

Said dress code is not required to show chapter and verse for each line item

If you disagree, then you should find somewhere else to worship.

The end.

[Michael The Disciple]

But one main reason I was not humiliated over a beard much was that I did not last long in mainstream Apostolic Churches. As a brand new Jesus Only believer having come up in The Jesus Movement and the Charismatic movement I joined an Apostolic Church in 1982 in Springfield Ohio.

The Pastor explained to me the standards of the Church. No one with a beard could be a member yet he said "Brother Gibson no one is going to Hell over a beard". I shaved then my first meeting there he announced I would be teaching the midweek meeting. Soon afterwards I was appointed an Elder.

As time went on I noticed the visiting Preachers usually hammered on the standards and made comments like "theres a bunch of devils running around out there preaching there is Bible for beards"! To me that was pitiful and shameful. The Pastors brother in law showed up one night with a beard and a visiting preacher made sport of him until he got up and fled the Church.

Well after a year of such things the Pastor got up and preached a message on perfection. It was a direct refutation of the doctrine I had been teaching. We were told Bible perfection was for men to shave, take off watches and rings and wear long sleeves. For women to never cut their hair again and never wear pants, make up or jewelry.

That was Biblical perfection.

It was my last time there.

Since then I have been part of Apostolic groups but never mainstream ones.

I met with the E

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Amanah

My husband has a beard, so hey.

Apostolic men unite! grow a beard!

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by n david

Guess you're bored and decided to beat a dead horse, eh Aquila?

I've never heard beard preached as a sin. Period. I was born and raised in the UPCI, attending camp meetings, conventions, conferences and revival services in districts around the US. The church I attend now is UPC. Again, I've never heard it preached against as a sin.

Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story.

It's ridiculous that people will do anything an employer asks of them, dress how the employer demands they dress --- even to the point of shaving their beard if the company's dress code states they must be clean shaven --- and with no complaint!

But let a Pastor have a dress code for people participating on the platform and the complaints and accusations of false doctrine begin.

"Men who are being forced to shave to join, be a part of, participate, minister, or lead in a church, aren't fully men at all."

That's straight trash. God placed a Pastor to lead the church. If I'm attending that church, I should be willing to be obedient to the man God placed to lead that church. You claim men aren't really men if they follow a dress code. Absurd. Also, does this apply to secular employment as well? If an employer's dress code says men must be clean shaven, are they less a man for doing so. Gimme a break!

Again, let's review:
A Pastor may require a dress code for those who wish to be involved in ministry on the platform at the church God placed them to lead;

Said dress code is not required to show chapter and verse for each line item

If you disagree, then you should find somewhere else to worship.

The end.

We ought never compare the pillar and ground of the truth of the Living God and Creator and Savior to secular employment. The way the Body of Christ is to exist, operate, and function is so far removed from all that is secular, as to be seen as foreign or alien to the ways of the world. One is holy, the very Bride of the Anointed One, the other is profane, or at least merely mundane, and has nothing to do with the other.

To even suggest such a thing...

And, to have no Bible for standards and that being okay is tantamount to mutiny. It makes Jesus not be the Head of that Body if His Word can be disregarded and something else can be propped up in its place.

Maybe being raised in the UPC your whole life gives you a skewed view of things? At least as much as being raised in the world for one's whole life gives a person a skewed view of the UPC? The tendency toward bias is ever present with all of us, after all.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Amanah

wasn't he teasing? he looks hairy to me.

Yeah. But it takes longer to grow now. Two weeks for a decent shadow. Used to take 2 days.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Amanah

at FPC Palm Bay right now, men have beards for the Messiah Drama and are wearing them on the platform.

They grew them out for the play.

This is my whole point Friend. Years ago I visited an Easter play at the Church Aquila came up in. It was ultracon as they come. Beards were as he testified "sin".

Yet at this PLAY the guy who PLAYED Simon Peter wore a costume beard! They were forced to admit in this PLAY about Jesus Christ that the Apostle Peter wore a beard. Acts 2:38 was first preached by a MAN WITH A BEARD!

Yet at the next meeting they probably went right on with the program teaching men are not holy or respectable or worse case scenario downright in sin!