"Beards are sin!" False doctrine?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is my whole point Friend. Years ago I visited an Easter play at the Church Aquila came up in. It was ultracon as they come. Beards were as he testified "sin".

Yet at this PLAY the guy who PLAYED Simon Peter wore a costume beard! They were forced to admit in this PLAY about Jesus Christ that the Apostle Peter wore a beard. Acts 2:38 was first preached by a MAN WITH A BEARD!

Yet at the next meeting they probably went right on with the program teaching men are not holy or respectable or worse case scenario downright in sin!

no, our preacher is younger, beards are not taught against.

the men on the platform for the play grew their real beards out.

the platform standards are for the old timers (my guess), eventually the beard thing will die out.

[TJJJ]

I'm against men having long uncut facial hair.

[houston]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

I'm against men having long uncut facial hair.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by houston

Man, I thought my dog was ugly........

[Michael The Disciple]

N DAVID

Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story.

And this my friends is the seed of all false doctrine and hypocrisy. No chapter and verse needed. Well obviously because there is none.

But put the shoe on the other foot now. A Catholic is told he is in the true Church. He questions the Friar about Oneness or some other doctrine. The Friar explains HE is the man of God and God has placed the man under his authority.

HE NEEDS NO CHAPTER AND VERSE. HE IS THE MAN OF GOD.

OH but now the Catholic man must go and burn in Hell for trillions of years! why? Because he used the same line of reasoning as N Dave.

So the principal for "Apostolics" is valid but is invalid for anyone else. Yea right.

NO CHAPTER OR VERSE NEEDED.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by n david

Guess you're bored and decided to beat a dead horse, eh Aquila?

I've never heard beard preached as a sin. Period. I was born and raised in the UPCI, attending camp meetings, conventions, conferences and revival services in districts around the US. The church I attend now is UPC. Again, I've never heard it preached against as a sin.

I could describe myself in the same terms, and I have definitely heard it described as sin. If you don't realize that this is the case you must have been living under a rock somewhere. Also actions speak louder than words, and the actions are deafening.

Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story.

HMM. It makes you wonder why Paul thought the Bereans were more noble than the saints at Thessalonika because they studied the scripture daily to see if these things be so. If the Apostle Paul was not afraid to be held accountable to the scriptures, perhaps our pastors should not be either.

It's ridiculous that people will do anything an employer asks of them, dress how the employer demands they dress --- even to the point of shaving their beard if the company's dress code states they must be clean shaven --- and with no complaint!

It is NOT ridiculous, it is commendable, and it is noble, according to the Apostle Paul. (See above.)

But let a Pastor have a dress code for people participating on the platform and the complaints and accusations of false doctrine begin.

"Men who are being forced to shave to join, be a part of, participate, minister, or lead in a church, aren't fully men at all."

That's straight trash. God placed a Pastor to lead the church. [COLOR="darkred"]

I am not aware of ANY instance of God placing a pastor, or any other single authoritative figure over a church, ever. Could you please provide scripture to support this notion? From the Bible? [/COLOR

]If I'm attending that church, I should be willing to be obedient to the man God placed to lead that church.

Elders were ordained to oversee the churches. Always plural. Pastors ordained to lead a church? Extra-biblical. Scripture to support this statement please?

You claim men aren't really men if they follow a dress code. Absurd. Also, does this apply to secular employment as well? If an employer's dress code says men must be clean shaven, are they less a man for doing so. Gimme a break!

Again, let's review:
A Pastor may require a dress code for those who wish to be involved in ministry on the platform at the church God placed them to lead;

Said dress code is not required to show chapter and verse for each line item

If you disagree, then you should find somewhere else to worship.

Now this I may agree with.

The end.

I'll be waiting on those scripture references!!



Oh . . . I forgot . . . You don't need to quote scripture. Just because . . . I guess anything goes.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Guess you're bored and decided to beat a dead horse, eh Aquila?

No. I'm a man with a beard, looking at Apostolic churches to attend in my area. All teach against beards. I can't find a prohibition against beards in my Bible, so... I'm wondering if it can be classified as a false doctrine.

I've never heard beard preached as a sin. Period. I was born and raised in the UPCI, attending camp meetings, conventions, conferences and revival services in districts around the US. The church I attend now is UPC. Again, I've never heard it preached against as a sin.

I find it interesting that so many who are against beards, or support pastors who have standards against beards, NEVER heard it preached that having a beard is a sin. While it's possible that you have NEVER heard it preached against as a sin to have a beard by pastoral decree... I'm in doubt. I'm sure that you've heard it somewhere after all those years in Pentecost.

Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story.

So, Apostolic pastors don't have to preach the Word of God? They can preach their opinions? I believe in standards. But I believe that a standard should be based on Scripture. Modesty is in Scripture. So, various modesty standards are reasonable in my eyes. But nowhere are beards condemned in Scripture. So much for being silent where the Bible is silent, and speaking where the Bible speaks. You just made the case that Apostolic pastors don't have to teach a way of life grounded in Scripture.

It's ridiculous that people will do anything an employer asks of them, dress how the employer demands they dress --- even to the point of shaving their beard if the company's dress code states they must be clean shaven --- and with no complaint!

Ahhhh... there it is. The institutional corporate worldview that equates church with worldly incorporation. The church isn't Walmart. It isn't a corporation. It isn't a business. It's the Kingdom of God. If you don't like an employer's standards, you can freely find another employer. But if all the Apostolic pastors around you teach something that isn't biblical, and you have no desire to listen to their unbiblical mess, where do you go? What do you do? Comparing the church to a secular business is wrong headed. In addition, it reinforces the dangers of institutionalized religion. The institution has the authority to add to the Word of God. It's all wrong. How can we rebuke Catholics for all their stupid and unbiblical teachings, when we champion our own???

But let a Pastor have a dress code for people participating on the platform and the complaints and accusations of false doctrine begin.

Ummm... if it's in the Bible, I have no issues with it. But if it is his opinion, he's preaching his opinion, not Scripture.

"Men who are being forced to shave to join, be a part of, participate, minister, or lead in a church, aren't fully men at all."

That's straight trash. God placed a Pastor to lead the church. If I'm attending that church, I should be willing to be obedient to the man God placed to lead that church.

No. I'm pointing out a doctrine and tradition of men... unless you can provide Bible for it no one is obligated to obey it. If your pastor commanded you to wear a tinfoil hat and a purple polka dot suit, would you do it??? It's not Scriptural. It's an abuse of power. It's everything those who champion Bible over tradition stand against.

You claim men aren't really men if they follow a dress code. Absurd.

I have no issue with dress codes that encourage modesty. Modest is a biblical Christian discipline.

Also, does this apply to secular employment as well? If an employer's dress code says men must be clean shaven, are they less a man for doing so. Gimme a break!

Again, you're seeing the church as a worldly corporate institution ruled by men instead of a spiritual Kingdom bound to the Word of God.

Again, let's review:
A Pastor may require a dress code for those who wish to be involved in ministry on the platform at the church God placed them to lead;

Said dress code is not required to show chapter and verse for each line item

Dress codes emphasizing modesty aren't an issue to me.

If you disagree, then you should find somewhere else to worship.

The end.

Actually, that's kinda why I asked this question. I AM looking for an Apostolic church to attend.

[n david]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

We ought never compare the pillar and ground of the truth of the Living God and Creator and Savior to secular employment. The way the Body of Christ is to exist, operate, and function is so far removed from all that is secular, as to be seen as foreign or alien to the ways of the world. One is holy, the very Bride of the Anointed One, the other is profane, or at least merely mundane, and has nothing to do with the other.

To even suggest such a thing...

It does have something to do with it. When a person degrades the role of a Pastor, openly calling for men to rebel against them, it shows there's a bigger issue than just disagreeing with a dress code.

Originally Posted by votivesoul

And, to have no Bible for standards and that being okay is tantamount to mutiny.

So posting that men should rebel against a Pastor who is placed to lead a church is okay? Hypocrisy. You flat out told men to rebel against their Pastor. And you're admin? Seriously?

What do you believe the role of the Pastor is? Please explain this, because your post shows you have no respect for the role. So what do you believe the role of a Pastor is?

Originally Posted by votivesoul

It makes Jesus not be the Head of that Body if His Word can be disregarded and something else can be propped up in its place.

Wrong. We're not talking about church doctrine or salvation. Again, I have never in the years I've been alive and churches I have visited, I have never personally heard a Pastor or other minister say it is a sin to grow a beard. Having a dress code does NOT disregard the Word, nor does it remove God as the Head of the Body.

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Maybe being raised in the UPC your whole life gives you a skewed view of things? At least as much as being raised in the world for one's whole life gives a person a skewed view of the UPC? The tendency toward bias is ever present with all of us, after all.

Sure, because I hold a different view than you, I'M the one who has a skewed view and biased view...

Do you shave or grow a beard?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

But one main reason I was not humiliated over a beard much was that I did not last long in mainstream Apostolic Churches. As a brand new Jesus Only believer having come up in The Jesus Movement and the Charismatic movement I joined an Apostolic Church in 1982 in Springfield Ohio.

The Pastor explained to me the standards of the Church. No one with a beard could be a member yet he said "Brother Gibson no one is going to Hell over a beard". I shaved then my first meeting there he announced I would be teaching the midweek meeting. Soon afterwards I was appointed an Elder.

As time went on I noticed the visiting Preachers usually hammered on the standards and made comments like "theres a bunch of devils running around out there preaching there is Bible for beards"! To me that was pitiful and shameful. The Pastors brother in law showed up one night with a beard and a visiting preacher made sport of him until he got up and fled the Church.

Well after a year of such things the Pastor got up and preached a message on perfection. It was a direct refutation of the doctrine I had been teaching. We were told Bible perfection was for men to shave, take off watches and rings and wear long sleeves. For women to never cut their hair again and never wear pants, make up or jewelry.

That was Biblical perfection.

It was my last time there.

Since then I have been part of Apostolic groups but never mainstream ones.

I met with the E

Nobody here against beards ever heard them preached as sin.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

And this my friends is the seed of all false doctrine and hypocrisy. No chapter and verse needed. Well obviously because there is none.

But put the shoe on the other foot now. A Catholic is told he is in the true Church. He questions the Friar about Oneness or some other doctrine. The Friar explains HE is the man of God and God has placed the man under his authority.

HE NEEDS NO CHAPTER AND VERSE. HE IS THE MAN OF GOD.

OH but now the Catholic man must go and burn in Hell for trillions of years! why? Because he used the same line of reasoning as N Dave.

So the principal for "Apostolics" is valid but is invalid for anyone else. Yea right.

NO CHAPTER OR VERSE NEEDED.

This is about a dress code, Mike. Not salvific doctrine.