"Beards are sin!" False doctrine?

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Amanah

we will have to defer to the Elders.

That's not what the Bereans did....

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by houston

I took 4 Advil PM tablets and 2 lisinopril. Nothing. I feel like a zombie. And I need to drive up to houston tonight.

Get off the internet and get some rest.
Sleep is more important, the light from the flat screen can mess you up.
Please get some rest.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thats riot aint it!

Facial hair is a source of pride and pride is a sin.

And

Rebellion against the mog is a sin.

Heard it under those 2 accusations.

One time I asked one of the ministers at the church why facial hair was prohibited. Mind you, I shaved immediately when told that my mustache was pride and pride is a sin. No questions asked. Some time passed and I realized there was nothing scriptural about the rule. So I asked...

The answer given was that I had been around long enough to know better.
I asked again, and I was given the same response.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Get off the internet and get some rest.
Sleep is more important, the light from the flat screen can mess you up.
Please get some rest.

Ok ok bye

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by houston

Facial hair is a source of pride and pride is a sin.

And

Rebellion against the mog is a sin.

Heard it under those 2 accusations.

One time I asked one of the ministers at the church why facial hair was prohibited. Mind you, I shaved immediately when told that my mustache was pride and pride is a sin. No questions asked. Some time passed and I realized there was nothing scriptural about the rule. So I asked...

The answer given was that I had been around long enough to know better.
I asked again, and I was given the same response.

At least he was consistent!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Nobody here against beards ever heard them preached as sin.

Sorry can't help you there. But I was told flat out by Steve Winter that if you didn't have a beard you were effeminate.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sorry can't help you there. But I was told flat out by Steve Winter that if you didn't have a beard you were effeminate.

I have noticed that it seems to swing from one extreme to the other. I quoted a scripture once about not rounding the corners of the beard and the other person in the debate said "Well then you shouldn't round the corners of YOUR beard". Just like that from one extreme to the other!

[n david]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

The comment above was actually an edit of my original post, when it occurred to me that you (apparently) did not believe that your pastor was under any obligation to support his doctrine (teaching) with scripture.

I'm not wanting to be argumentative here, but I'm still unconvinced that you did not, in fact, say what you meant. I do however want to give every benefit of the doubt that you are being truthful. Doctrine and teaching are the same thing. Guidelines appear to me to be awfully close to the same thing as doctrine. Let's just move on?

God bless you.

Whether the board or the Pastor wrote the guidelines doesn't change that it's the guidelines meant for a person wanting to become involved in ministry or serve on the platform. This isn't about anything being preached/taught. This is solely about ministry/platform guidelines, which cover various parts of dress, appearance and conduct.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sorry can't help you there. But I was told flat out by Steve Winter that if you didn't have a beard you were effeminate.

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Men who are being forced to shave to join, be a part of, participate, minister, or lead in a church, aren't fully men at all.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Here's something to make you happy: If a minister claims that growing a beard is a sin, that is wrong. It's not scriptural.

Thank you! lol That's really all I wanted to know.

The original question you ask is whether it is false doctrine. What is false doctrine? First, define what is doctrine. Doctrine is a set of beliefs or teachings based on the Word of God. So false doctrine would be something which is contrary to the beliefs and teaching of the Word of God.

For example: it is biblical doctrine that a person must be born again. False doctrine would then be claiming that you don't need to be born again.

For there to be a claim of false doctrine, there must be a doctrine to begin with. There is no early church doctrine on beards that I have found. So I would answer that it is not false doctrine, but would agree that any minister who claims beards are a sin would be in error.

A doctrine is a teaching. There is biblical doctrine. There are also doctrines of men and doctrines of devils. A teaching stating that a beard is a sin that could cause one to lose their soul is clearly a false teaching, i.e., false doctrine.

Again, the churches I've visited/attended included beards in the dress code for ministry/platform. Most of those churches had men in attendance who wore beards. The Pastor of the UPC church I currently attend includes beards in its dress code for ministry/platform. It's a relatively small church (approx 70 or so) and there are a few men who attend who grow either a full beard or mustache. I asked him about it when I first began attending and was told he doesn't believe it to be a sin, only a preference for those in ministry.

I'm not "against" having a platform policy. Especially with regards to attire. But I do ask myself, why must there be two standards regarding beards? You admitted it yourself, there was never a set teaching about beards in Scripture. Why impose such a teaching at all? Essentially the pastor's platform policy would rule out ever allowing Jesus, Paul, Peter, and perhaps the other Apostles from being able to teach on the platform of your church. If the Word of God doesn't set any kind of precedent for drawing distinction between those who wear beards and those who don't, why would a pastor?

I'm suspecting that it has something to do with the norms and position of the organization. It's politics. If someone walks into the church, the platform better toe the line of the organization, else the pastor could be called on it. It's institutional pressure from men to conform to an outdated model frozen in time. Now, this could be good or bad. But it does show the power of an institution.

Also, as a bearded individual, it makes it sound like at best, your church is embarrassed to have us. As long as we don't wish to be on the platform, we're tolerated. It makes me a bit uncomfortable.

You're not understanding what I posted. The context was in regards to a Pastor adopting a dress code for ministry/platform. Don't try to twist this into something else.

A pastoral "dress code" (regarding attire) is biblical as long as it is grounded in the biblical principle of modesty. I don't believe beards should be included in "dress codes". Because I can't take off my beard and put it immediately back on. It isn't attire. It is a part of my body.

Shouldn't everything a pastor does be based on sound "biblical" principles and not his own wishes or the arbitrary opinions of man?

Wrong. You're twisting what I posted and taking it completely out of context.

Well, it certainly looked like you said that no Scriptural foundation was necessary for a pastor to impose a dress code. I mean, wouldn't that mean a pastor could command tinfoil hats, and you'd believe we have to obey it?

First, I'm surprised that you would be interested in attending an institutional church at all, what with your previous posts against them.

I've had to distance myself from the house church I was attending. They are not Apostolic and though they showed interest in the truth for a time, that time has passed. So, I'm looking around at local churches.

Second, how a person responds shows the condition of their heart. So when a man will shave without a word for the dress code of a secular business, but whine and throw a tantrum over a dress code for ministry in a local church - it shows a lot.

Big difference. A pastor has a sacred trust. His standards, beliefs, and teachings are expected to be grounded in Scripture. Now, I don't expect my chief to abide by Scripture. He's not a Christian, and our department isn't "Christian". It's secular. He can arbitrarily make any standard he chooses. But like I said, he doesn't have a sacred trust. The pastor does. We expect pastors to teach and require things grounded in Scripture, should we not?

As stated above, I agree that any minister who claims growing a beard is a sin is wrong. I do not believe it is the same as false doctrine, by simple definition.

I understand your reasoning. But I see doctrine as teaching. It can come from the Bible, men, tradition, and even devils. A teaching that isn't grounded on Scripture, that imposes a Scriptural punishment (like Hell) is definitely a "false doctrine".

Back to context. This is regarding dress code for men who wish to be involved in the ministry/platform. If the church I attended had a dress code stating I had to wear a tinfoil hat and purple polka dot suit to be used in the ministry/platform, I would find another church in which to minister.

See how easy that is?

It is easy. However, it's also troubling. Few Apostolic churches within my community and the surrounding area would welcome me, and none would allow me to sing in the choir (perhaps this is a positive), all because of my beard.

Modesty isn't only about a dress code.

True. I'm just focusing on modesty because it is a biblical practice with biblical principles.

That's untrue.

What if it is true, and you honestly don't realize it yet?

Which seems odd to me, considering the previous posts made against institutional churches.

I don't like institutional churches. But, I'd like to find someplace to attend.