"Beards are sin!" False doctrine?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Modesty isn't only about dress.

What I have seen used for ministry/platform guidelines includes more than just dress, so perhaps my calling it a dress code is confusing you.

In my 29 years in Pentecost "dress codes" typically focused primarily on attire. I don't see beards as attire. Because I can't just take it off and put it on at will. Also, it isn't an accessory or article of clothing, it is a part of my body.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

I didn't mean all UPC churches some haven't compromised but I've seen some that are like clubs on videos and stuff. Because all that stuff is to set a mood and draw a crowd. That's a huge thing that's why my church split from the UPC because a lot of that movement has gone that way. Many churches compromised standards and even Acts 2:38. All I was saying you can find a church that is compromising just trying to draw a crowd if you look is all. Didn't mean any disrespect to those attending UPC churches.

Well, they need the money for those buildings, salaries, etc. lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

I appreciate this post, thank you.

"In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story."

This was regarding guidelines set for those who wish to be involved in a church ministry or on the platform. This isn't about a doctrine being preached. This is simply about guidelines and preferences for dress, appearance and conduct for those who desire to be used in ministry/platform. These may include things which are not sin and as such do not have chapter and verse, but are the preference of the church leadership. I have served on the church board/Pastoral counsel of two churches, so this may not be indicative of how things are done elsewhere -- in those churches, these guidelines were set by the church board.

Your response at the end included: "Oh . . . I forgot . . . You don't need to quote scripture. Just because . . . I guess anything goes."

That is simply untrue and takes out of context my statement.

If the men set the guidelines... why couldn't anything go? I know a church that doesn't allow women to wear colored pantyhose, especially on the platform. I know another that doesn't allow women to wear nude pantyhose, especially on the platform. Some restrict T-shirts on men, requiring 3/4 length shirts at the shortest. All that I know forbid shorts on men, even if they cover the knee like most women's skirts and dresses. It's a bit crazy when you think of all the silly arbitrary standards that aren't required in Scripture at all.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by derAlte

I've been around a few decades and have heard all sorts of reasons why a man should not have a beard...i.e. that male facial hair is actually male makeup, that one is identifying oneself with liberal clergyman, or the hippy movement, etc. In my judgment (that and 5 cents will get you a cup of coffee at Wall Drug in South Dakota) it is simply not intellectually honest to proclaim male facial hair a sin. There isn't a lick of scripture against it. The clincher for me is the fact that the Lord Jesus himself, whom we sing that we want to be like, had a beard. End of story. He is the ultimate arbiter of what is sin and what is not. If He did it, it must not be wrong.

Do I have a beard? No. I don't like having a bushy face. I don't think my Friend cares that I stay clean shaven. I don't condemn anyone who has facial hair. If someone grows a beard just rile up those in authority, it isn't the hair that's the problem, its the heart. We live in a world full of cantankerous and ornery people who would grow a beard just to get a rise. I'm not sure being right on facial hair and out of unity with the body is worth it.

We have ministers in our UPCI district that have facial hair and they are accepted by most who have realized that God is not about to write "Ichabod" over the life of a guy just because he has some hair on his face.

I heard that a preacher in another state sent his son out to start a branch work. The son, after pastoring this branch work for awhile decided to grow a beard. As far as I know, the son still pastors the branch work but when he returns to his dad's church, he is only allowed to run the sound booth because of his beard. This sounds awfully silly to me. I'm not sure the son's attitude was right by growing it but it seems strange that he can pastor out in the field but his ministry is not acknowledged in the home church because of some hair on his face.

It is silly. It's obvious to me that men with beards are subpar in their eyes.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

God has used clean shaved and bearded men. That's good enough for me.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by houston

I took 4 Advil PM tablets and 2 lisinopril. Nothing. I feel like a zombie. And I need to drive up to houston tonight.

I assume something is on your mind? If you need to vent, feel free to PM me. Let it rip. No judgments from me, I promise.

Try to stay away from that artificial medical mess. Stick as much as possible to all natural herbs that God has given us. Drink some chamomile tea like EB advised. Turn off all electronics. They stimulate your occipital nerve and tend to keep you in an awakened state.

Have a moment of tea and relax. Lay down in a darkened room with shades drawn, no electronic screens going. Close your eyes and pray. Begin praying for everyone you know. Begin praying for your family. Begin praising God for His goodness and worship silently in your heart. When I do these things, I bring peace to my inner man, my soul, and my body.

I'll keep you in prayer my brother.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thats a riot aint it!

Just think. Men with no sin in their life are not respectable enuff to step on the HOLY PLATFORM!

The Heavenly Father, The Lord Jesus Christ would not be permitted to address the most holy saints in an Apostolic Church!

Ouch.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sorry can't help you there. But I was told flat out by Steve Winter that if you didn't have a beard you were effeminate.

That's an extreme in the opposite direction. I think I might have said such tongue in cheek. But honestly, I don't believe being clean shaven is a problem in any way shape or form.

Unless... one has pride in their jaw line. Then it's a sin. They should be required to grow a beard.

[Evang.Benincasa]

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sorry can't help you there. But I was told flat out by Steve Winter that if you didn't have a beard you were effeminate.

One out of a thousand Apostolics.