"Beards are sin!" False doctrine?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Amen! And GOD created and designed the beard to be on a mans face. They are fighting against God

!

Isn't fighting against God a sin?

Let's watch the pendulum swing!


America is burning wreckage.

[votivesoul]

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

CS Lewis wrote a wonderful book called The Screwtape Letters. I highly recommend it. In one particular chapter, Mr. Lewis details how one of the best ways to undermine a new believer's faith is to get them to disregard Jesus as He actually is, and instead come to believe in a pseudo-Jesus, of one's own making.

As long as that believer is fixed on following and worshipping the pseudo-Jesus of his or her own making, their faith will never really take off and eventually, they will end up falling on their face, and never understand the reason why. Their version of Jesus will fade from view and they'll never even realize their version of Jesus was a fake Jesus all along.

This is what man-made traditions and ideas do to the saints: they create false views of Who Jesus really is. To embrace such things at any level is to undermine true faith in the Lord. You (figuratively speaking) don't believe that? Fine, go your way and continue on in your convictions and may your faith in them make you whole.

But think for a moment what is at stake. We believe all scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for doctrine and etc., right? We believe that, right? We believe Paul, for example, was an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, and his writings are eternally binding on all believers everywhere, right?

So, when Paul writes to the Corinthians and tells them "Not that we have dominion over your faith", we understand that not even Paul, the greatest apostle and evangelist in the history of Christianity, whose writings make up the bulk of the New Testament, could claim to be able to or have the right to, be a "lord" (check the Greek here) over someone else's faith. And that statement was "God-breathed" was it not? It's Holy Scripture, right?

And what does Simon Peter write about lording it over God's heritage? It's all derived from the same Greek word. What does Jesus say about how the gentiles exercise dominion or lordship over one another and think themselves benefactors of those whom they rule? It's all from the same Greek word/concept. He emphatically and unequivocally states "It shall not be so among you".

But here we are, not quite 2,000 years removed from those days and we're still coming out of Babylon, still entertaining catholic spirits of papist wickedness, giving in and allowing one another to exercise dominion over each other, and over the faith's of one another, in CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE TEACHINGS OF THE SON OF GOD AND HIS APOSTLES, and we think ourselves benefactors for doing so, just like Gentiles who walk in the darkness of their minds.

You have only one Leader, and it's Christ Jesus:

Matthew 23:10 (NASB),

Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.

Go and look at the word "leaders" above in the Greek. It is the correct way to translate καθηγηταί.

Paul, by the Spirit, told his audience to "acquit yourselves like men". What does that mean? How should men act like men? How do they maintain their masculinity, their "male-ness", if you will. What did the Lord through Paul want His men to be or do, to make sure that verse of Holy Scripture was obeyed?

Certainly it's not to let another man replace Christ as your head?, Or to allow someone else to replace you as your wife's head?

If you (figuratively speaking) cannot see how letting another man tell your wife what she can and cannot wear is emasculating, I suspect you (figuratively speaking), either are the one doing the emasculating of other men, or you don't mind being neutered by someone else.

What grows out of my face is my business, between my head Jesus and me, and if Jesus can't Himself give me a scripture for it one way or another (because none exist), then no one else can either. And so they don't. Realizing how faltering their position is, instead they go for the jugular a completely different way.

They call it rebellion and pride.

I call it a bunch of cr@p, or dung if you prefer a more Biblical term. It is impossible to rebel against an authority that does not exist. You cannot break a law that isn't actually a law. There is no violation of Holy Scripture occuring when there isn't any verse of Holy Scripture whatsoever on the matter.

And the idea that you can say, "well, chapter and verse don't have to exist" for the pastor or leaders to create a standard; it's just within his or their authority to do as elders and leaders, then you admit you "go by the Book" but something else, too.

And we wonder why the USA is circling the drain and national Christianity is falling away? We blame it on a lot of things, but the fact is, it's because God's not in it, that's why. No one can resist God. Who can contend with the Almighty? Would the state of our culture and society be where it's at today without God being the One to let it come to this?

Our Lord is not involved because we aren't just people of the Book. We are people of the Book, plus these other opinions and ideas. Those other opinions and ideas are what got Christ crucified, His apostles martyred, and the true church of the Living God split open nave to neck on a regular basis by the catholic nightmare.

But any dares try and draw a line in the sand somewhere in Pentecost and say "No! We aren't caving in on this one", and accusation of rebellion, heresy, hypocrisy all start to fly from the lips of the status quo who see nothing wrong with adding in a little leaven here and there, for the sake of some popish "platform" that never existed anywhere in the New Covenant Church.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

When Paul wrote about the kind of church Jesus is coming back for, what did he mean, or rather, what did the Spirit of Christ mean through Paul, when He/he wrote that she must be without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, that she must be holy, without blemish?

To answer, imagine wearing a nice suit and tie or dress for a wedding or funeral. Ever find a little spot on that nice tie? Or realize too late your slacks are a bit wrinkled, but you don't have time to change them? Or that your dress is a bit blemished by discoloration from the sun, or something like that?

All these things we would call small and inconsequential. We'd like for them not to exist, but time being of the essence, we go to the wedding or funeral, realizing no one is actually going to care that much about a little stain here or there, a bit of a wrinkle or etc.

But guess what? Try going to the Wedding Feast of the Lamb with that attitude. You're going to be shown the door that leads to wailing and gnashing of teeth. I promise you, or what Paul wrote in Ephesians isn't actually binding on us and we can present ourselves as the Church to the Lord any old way we please.

What does God say in Malachi about when the priests offered him weak and sickly animals, ones that are blemished or damaged in some way? He says He would prefer that they not even open the doors of the temple! Why?

Because they mixed man-made ideas into how to serve God by becoming partial in the Law. I'm sorry if no one ever told you this, but God is going to recompense every man-made idea and human tradition tacked onto His People, particularly those who ought to know better because they are supposed to be more spiritually discerning and wise regarding the ways of the Lord, which is to say, the ministry.

And the answer to that fearsome truth is simply, if you don't like it, go somewhere else. To such a flippant response, I offer you Ezekiel 34.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

CS Lewis wrote a wonderful book called The Screwtape Letters. I highly recommend it. In one particular chapter, Mr. Lewis details how one of the best ways to undermine a new believer's faith is to get them to disregard Jesus as He actually is, and instead come to believe in a pseudo-Jesus, of one's own making.

As long as that believer is fixed on following and worshipping the pseudo-Jesus of his or her own making, their faith will never really take off and eventually, they will end up falling on their face, and never understand the reason why. Their version of Jesus will fade from view and they'll never even realize their version of Jesus was a fake Jesus all along.

This is what man-made traditions and ideas do to the saints: they create false views of Who Jesus really is. To embrace such things at any level is to undermine true faith in the Lord. You (figuratively speaking) don't believe that? Fine, go your way and continue on in your convictions and may your faith in them make you whole.

But think for a moment what is at stake. We believe all scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for doctrine and etc., right? We believe that, right? We believe Paul, for example, was an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, and his writings are eternally binding on all believers everywhere, right?

So, when Paul writes to the Corinthians and tells them "Not that we have dominion over your faith", we understand that not even Paul, the greatest apostle and evangelist in the history of Christianity, whose writings make up the bulk of the New Testament, could claim to be able to or have the right to, be a "lord" (check the Greek here) over someone else's faith. And that statement was "God-breathed" was it not? It's Holy Scripture, right?

And what does Simon Peter write about lording it over God's heritage? It's all derived from the same Greek word. What does Jesus say about how the gentiles exercise dominion or lordship over one another and think themselves benefactors of those whom they rule? It's all from the same Greek word/concept. He emphatically and unequivocally states "It shall not be so among you".

But here we are, not quite 2,000 years removed from those days and we're still coming out of Babylon, still entertaining catholic spirits of papist wickedness, giving in and allowing one another to exercise dominion over each other, and over the faith's of one another, in CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE TEACHINGS OF THE SON OF GOD AND HIS APOSTLES, and we think ourselves benefactors for doing so, just like Gentiles who walk in the darkness of their minds.

You have only one Leader, and it's Christ Jesus:

Matthew 23:10 (NASB),

Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.

Go and look at the word "leaders" above in the Greek. It is the correct way to translate καθηγηταί.

Paul, by the Spirit, told his audience to "acquit yourselves like men". What does that mean? How should men act like men? How do they maintain their masculinity, their "male-ness", if you will. What did the Lord through Paul want His men to be or do, to make sure that verse of Holy Scripture was obeyed?

Certainly it's not to let another man replace Christ as your head?, Or to allow someone else to replace you as your wife's head?

If you (figuratively speaking) cannot see how letting another man tell your wife what she can and cannot wear is emasculating, I suspect you (figuratively speaking), either are the one doing the emasculating of other men, or you don't mind being neutered by someone else.

What grows out of my face is my business, between my head Jesus and me, and if Jesus can't Himself give me a scripture for it one way or another (because none exist), then no one else can either. And so they don't. Realizing how faltering their position is, instead they go for the jugular a completely different way.

They call it rebellion and pride.

I call it a bunch of cr@p, or dung if you prefer a more Biblical term. It is impossible to rebel against an authority that does not exist. You cannot break a law that isn't actually a law. There is no violation of Holy Scripture occuring when there isn't any verse of Holy Scripture whatsoever on the matter.

And the idea that you can say, "well, chapter and verse don't have to exist" for the pastor or leaders to create a standard; it's just within his or their authority to do as elders and leaders, then you admit you "go by the Book" but something else, too.

And we wonder why the USA is circling the drain and national Christianity is falling away? We blame it on a lot of things, but the fact is, it's because God's not in it, that's why. No one can resist God. Who can contend with the Almighty? Would the state of our culture and society be where it's at today without God being the One to let it come to this?

Our Lord is not involved because we aren't just people of the Book. We are people of the Book, plus these other opinions and ideas. Those other opinions and ideas are what got Christ crucified, His apostles martyred, and the true church of the Living God split open nave to neck on a regular basis by the catholic nightmare.

But any dares try and draw a line in the sand somewhere in Pentecost and say "No! We aren't caving in on this one", and accusation of rebellion, heresy, hypocrisy all start to fly from the lips of the status quo who see nothing wrong with adding in a little leaven here and there, for the sake of some popish "platform" that never existed anywhere in the New Covenant Church.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

When Paul wrote about the kind of church Jesus is coming back for, what did he mean, or rather, what did the Spirit of Christ mean through Paul, when He/he wrote that she must be without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, that she must be holy, without blemish?

To answer, imagine wearing a nice suit and tie or dress for a wedding or funeral. Ever find a little spot on that nice tie? Or realize too late your slacks are a bit wrinkled, but you don't have time to change them? Or that your dress is a bit blemished by discoloration from the sun, or something like that?

All these things we would call small and inconsequential. We'd like for them not to exist, but time being of the essence, we go to the wedding or funeral, realizing no one is actually going to care that much about a little stain here or there, a bit of a wrinkle or etc.

But guess what? Try going to the Wedding Feast of the Lamb with that attitude. You're going to be shown the door that leads to wailing and gnashing of teeth. I promise you, or what Paul wrote in Ephesians isn't actually binding on us and we can present ourselves as the Church to the Lord any old way we please.

What does God say in Malachi about when the priests offered him weak and sickly animals, ones that are blemished or damaged in some way? He says He would prefer that they not even open the doors of the temple! Why?

Because they mixed man-made ideas into how to serve God by becoming partial in the Law. I'm sorry if no one ever told you this, but God is going to recompense every man-made idea and human tradition tacked onto His People, particularly those who ought to know better because they are supposed to be more spiritually discerning and wise regarding the ways of the Lord, which is to say, the ministry.

And the answer to that fearsome truth is simply, if you don't like it, go somewhere else. To such a flippant response, I offer you Ezekiel 34.

While what you have written is generally true, there is another side to the subject.

And when Moses' father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even? And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God: When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws. And Moses' father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good. Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone. Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God: And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee. If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace. So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said. And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.
(Exodus 18:14-26)

And in the new testament Scripture:

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
(Matthew 18:15-20)

And again:

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
(1 Corinthians 6:2-5)

There does seem to be some leeway given to the assembly to establish certain judgments. The issue of church discipline of erring members rests upon an authority given to the assembly. Of course, there is the possibility of error, as that same authority which was delegated to the judges and elders of Israel later on were morphed into the travesty known as Talmudic Pharisaism (the "traditions of the elders" which were notorious for contradicting the actual Word of God). And, the same authority given to the elders of the new covenant assembly over time was warped into the clerical "magisterium" which gave rise to the catholic movement (see 3 John 1:9-10).

So the local assembly needs to meet, and pray, and discuss these things, and get them ironed out.

[Michael The Disciple]

Winds of change. We are desperate.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Winds of change. We are desperate.

Who is desperate?

[Amanah]

The forum is making me feel a bit queasy this morning, between Esaias' thread on the unreality of our society, to this thread calling for ecclesiastical anarchy.

[Michael The Disciple]

And when Moses' father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even? And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God: When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws. And Moses' father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good. Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone. Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God: And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee. If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace. So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said. And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.

The answer to this seems to be in plurality of Elders.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

There does seem to be some leeway given to the assembly to establish certain judgments. The issue of church discipline of erring members rests upon an authority given to the assembly. Of course, there is the possibility of error, as that same authority which was delegated to the judges and elders of Israel later on were morphed into the travesty known as Talmudic Pharisaism (the "traditions of the elders" which were notorious for contradicting the actual Word of God). And, the same authority given to the elders of the new covenant assembly over time was warped into the clerical "magisterium" which gave rise to the catholic movement (see 3 John 1:9-10).

So the local assembly needs to meet, and pray, and discuss these things, and get them ironed out.

Well this seems to relate more to personal issues. The issue at hand is a tradition of men that is strangling the Churches. But yes the saints should get together and hammer it out and pray for wisdom.

Of course the leadership would not allow saints to be part of the process. So it comes down to leadership. It seems clear if they did this the Spirit would convict them for pushing away souls reaching out to him.

They would repent and make a policy statement they were wrong about beards and ask forgiveness. I believe YAH would bless that.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Who is desperate?

Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well this seems to relate more to personal issues. The issue at hand is a tradition of men that is strangling the Churches. But yes the saints should get together and hammer it out and pray for wisdom.

Of course the leadership would not allow saints to be part of the process. Some it comes down to leadership. It seems clear if they did this the Spirit would convict them for pushing away souls reaching out to him.

They would repent and make a policy statement they were wrong about beards and ask forgiveness. I believe YAH would bless that.

The anti-beard position was entirely a reaction to the beatnick, biker, hippie scenes. Most in leadership today are from that era, or are those whom that generation of leadership trained. Today, beards have no connection to drugged out beatnicks, bikers, or hippies, as beards and facial hair are worn by a large cross section of society now (just as they were before the 40s-50s). so I imagine it's just a matter of time and the whole facial hair issue will simply fade out.

Unless the hipsters ruin it for us all with their Twin Peaks neckbeards and plaid shirts and crummy coffee.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The anti-beard position was entirely a reaction to the beatnick, biker, hippie scenes. Most in leadership today are from that era, or are those whom that generation of leadership trained. Today, beards have no connection to drugged out beatnicks, bikers, or hippies, as beards and facial hair are worn by a large cross section of society now (just as they were before the 40s-50s). so I imagine it's just a matter of time and the whole facial hair issue will simply fade out.

Unless the hipsters ruin it for us all with their Twin Peaks neckbeards and plaid shirts and crummy coffee.

Beards are connected to hippies so we peach against all people wearing them?

How does that square with suits being worn by Politicians, CIA killers, Wall Street swindlers, and HOLLYWOOD ACTORS?

If they were honest in their ways they would have forbidden the people from dressing like the world. I will believe they are sincere in this matter when they give up their suits that connect them to worldliness.