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View Poll Results: Do you support Christian Reconstructionism
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04-11-2018, 09:23 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
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Re: Christian Reconstructionism:
The temptation to reach for political power is a distraction that will take away our time, resources, energy, and will even destroy our reputation.
Christ's kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. We should seek to advance it through the Holy Spirit in the midst of this world, not through the processes and systems of this world.
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04-11-2018, 11:05 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,807
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Re: Christian Reconstructionism:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
The temptation to reach for political power is a distraction that will take away our time, resources, energy, and will even destroy our reputation.
Christ's kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. We should seek to advance it through the Holy Spirit in the midst of this world, not through the processes and systems of this world.
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04-11-2018, 11:26 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
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Re: Christian Reconstructionism:
If anything, I'd expect Christians to follow a philosophy closer to Christian anarchism.
Christian Anarchism Defined:
Christian anarchism is a movement in political theology that claims anarchism is inherent in Christianity and the Gospels. It is grounded in the belief that there is only one source of authority to which Christians are ultimately answerable, the authority of God as embodied in the teachings of Jesus, and thus rejects the idea that human governments have ultimate authority over human societies. Christian anarchists denounce the state as they claim it is violent, deceitful and, when glorified, idolatrous. Christian anarchists hold that the proper relationship between God and people is the "Reign of God" in which human relationships would be characterized by divided authority, servant leadership, and universal compassion rather than the hierarchical, authoritarian structures normally attributed to religion. More than any other Bible source, the Sermon on the Mount is used as the basis for Christian anarchism. Most Christian anarchists are pacifists and reject the use of violence.
Bible passages cited by Christian anarchists:
◾My kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36).
◾We are to obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29).
◾To seek rule by man is to reject the rule of God (1 Samuel 8).
◾Christians struggle against governments, rulers, and spiritual wickedness (Ephesians 6:12).
◾Honest people are too busy making an honest living to accept political power, so only the corruptible will accept political power (Judges 9:7-15 The Parable of the Trees).
◾The devil offers all kingdoms to Jesus in return for worshipping him.(Matthew 4:8-10).
◾The gentiles have rulers over them, but it shall not be so among Christians (Mark 10:42-45). (Notice that the word for rulers here in the Greek is archos. Therefore some say Christians are by simple deduction an-archos or in English anarchists). Christian Anarchists generally believe in:
- Radical separation of church & state.
- Obeying laws that serve the common good.
- Practice pacifism.
- Oppose war.
- Oppose serving on juries.
- Oppose oaths.
- Abstain from voting, or only vote for the common good.
- Oppose discrimination in all forms.
- Do not pledge allegiance to the state.
- Do not support church incorporation.
- Do not support state ministers licensing.
- Oppose state marriage licensing.
- Oppose institutional religion.
- Oppose political partisanship in the church.
- Oppose institutionalized religious hierarchy.
- Embrace communal fellowship.
- Believe in stewardship over ownership.
- Believe in distribution of tax revenues for the common good, or no taxation at all. Some excellent works from a Christian anarchist position were written by Leo Tolstoy.
Many statist Christians like to point to Romans 13:1-7 as a proof text that we are to obey and be allegiant to earthly governments. Christian anarchists tend to interpret the passage differently. Here's a break down of the Christian anarchist take on it:
Romans 13:1-7 English Standard Version (ESV)
13 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. (Earthly governments in power are only present because God has allowed them to be so. Christians are not to engage in revolt against earthly governments but to submit with reluctance. To engage in violent revolutionary acts will bring God's judgment upon us.) 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. (Earthly governments serve as an instrument through which God may punish the wickedness of man. Therefore, we should be as law abiding and peaceable as possible.) 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. (Violent revolt against earthly governments is not God's will, and to begin violent revolt will only scar the conscience.) 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. (Also, we are to pay taxes so that we can aid in keeping the social order and have a clean conscience before the ungodly state.) Also, another text under consideration would be Titus 3:1-2...
Titus 3:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV)
1 Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. This is interpreted to mean that Christians are to obey laws and authorities as much as is possible, being ready to share Christ and Christ's kingdom. Christians are not to engage in sedition, nor instigate civil unrest. But rather we are to be gentle, showing courtesy towards all people.
This is very similar to...
1 Peter 2:13-17 English Standard Version (ESV)
13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor. Again, Christians are not to engage in violent revolt nor revolutions. We are to respect all in authority, and keep a peaceful and law abiding witness. However, we are to live as people who are indeed free, not using our liberty to plan or plot insurrection. But rather to live as servants of God in the midst of a fallen and wicked world. We are to be respectful of all men.
Most of this is in the Christian anarchist's view an admonition not to engage in armed rebellion, violent overthrow, engage in sedition, launch revolution, or unnecessarily disrespect the tyrants in authority. We are to remain separate from the world. But respectful of its systems. However, through example Paul demonstrated that when the government clashes with the will of God, we obey God over government.
Last edited by Aquila; 04-11-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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04-11-2018, 06:22 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 938
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Re: Christian Reconstructionism:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
This is funny. So many prefer to live in a nation ruled by the religion of humanist communism rather than anything resembling or even trying to approach Christianity.
And so here we are: sodomite marriage, transgenderism, transhumanism, blatant unrestrained in-your-face corruption at practically ALL levels of society, marriage and family blown out of the water, mass hysterical stupidity, etc etc etc.
Yep, sure glad we don't live in a Bible-based society.

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The problem is that our KINGDOM is not of this world. Jesus Christ, you know that GOD fellow, purposefully chose to NOT overthrow a government arguably more wicked than ours. Our forefathers left a theocracy in order to establish the United States of America. Who has more wisdom: you or the Founding Fathers?
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04-11-2018, 06:25 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 938
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Re: Christian Reconstructionism:
"Where sin abounds, grace does much more abound." The birth of the New Testament church was in the manger of hypocritical religiosity, immorality, and mass, bloody persecution. If you ask me, our nation is almost ripe for REVIVAL!
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04-11-2018, 09:07 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,945
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Re: Christian Reconstructionism:
All of these anti theonomy posts display a profound ignorance of theonomy, Christian reconstruction, and political reality, not to mention the Kingdom of God.
It's fascinating how political polytheists believe the Kingdom is advanced by allowing evil to run rampant with no opposition whatsoever except fair speeches complaining about the sad state of affairs.
Question for the Baptists here: Who knows how best to run a society, God? Or man?
Answer that and we can proceed with enlightening you all as to what theonomy and reconstruction is actually all about. Then, you can make an informed decision as to whether you support, or oppose.
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04-11-2018, 09:14 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,945
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Re: Christian Reconstructionism:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo
The problem is that our KINGDOM is not of this world. Jesus Christ, you know that GOD fellow, purposefully chose to NOT overthrow a government arguably more wicked than ours. Our forefathers left a theocracy in order to establish the United States of America. Who has more wisdom: you or the Founding Fathers?
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The Founding Fathers represented 13 States which for the most made it illegal for papists, Deists, Universalists, atheists, and Mohammedans to hold any public office or in some cases even testify in court as a valid witness. Sodomy was illegal, cross dressing was illegal, blasphemy was illegal in the Union the Founding Fathers established. Jurisprudence was based on Anglo-Norman common law, which was known to be based largely on Scripture.
Of course, the Founding Fathers themselves (the ones who created the Constitution) abandoned the Christian States they represented when they inserted the "no religious test" clause. But what else would be expected from a bunch of Freemasons and bankster puppets?
And, here we are, the fruit of godless liberalism, which was birthed in the renaissance.
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04-12-2018, 12:18 AM
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Jesus is the only Lord God
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,565
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Re: Christian Reconstructionism:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
All of these anti theonomy posts display a profound ignorance of theonomy, Christian reconstruction, and political reality, not to mention the Kingdom of God.
It's fascinating how political polytheists believe the Kingdom is advanced by allowing evil to run rampant with no opposition whatsoever except fair speeches complaining about the sad state of affairs.
Question for the Baptists here: Who knows how best to run a society, God? Or man?
Answer that and we can proceed with enlightening you all as to what theonomy and reconstruction is actually all about. Then, you can make an informed decision as to whether you support, or oppose.
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God...now enlighten us
__________________
...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
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04-12-2018, 12:50 AM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,945
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Re: Christian Reconstructionism:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG
God...now enlighten us
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Well, since God knows best how to run a society, has God given us any information on how to do that? Has God spoken on how society should be run?
The answer of course, is "Yes". It's called His Word. And His Word reveals how man is to live, both individually, and as a society. In fact, the two are inseperable, since if God tells man how to live individually, and since society is simply the collection of individual humans, then it follows that how all men are to live individually is how society is to function.
God has revealed that man is fallen. And thus, sin must be restrained. That is (one of) the main purpose(s) of "the state", that is, civil government. As it is written in Romans 13:
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
(Romans 13:1-4)
Now, God took a man, Abram, changed his name to Abraham, and made a covenant with him and his descendants. Those people wound up in bondage in Egypt because of their sins ( Joshua 24:14) but God kept his promise and brought them out of bondage and established them as His peculiar possession among the nations. Israel, then, was the Kingdom of God in this earth ( Psalm 114:1-2). It was a kingdom, with Jehovah as King, and governed by His laws ( Isaiah 33:22). God himself gave them their laws, and therefore they are superior to any and all laws made by men. God organised their society, different than the surrounding nations. Since as you said God knows best, the system He established was (and is) best and perfect ( Psalm 19:7, Romans 7:12, James 1:25).
Israels purpose as God's Kingdom on earth was to model and demonstrate Divine Government, to teach the nations how to live:
Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
(Deuteronomy 4:5-8) Of course, due to the failure of unregenerate man to actually perform the will of God, and due to Israel's constant breaking of the Law Covenant, God made a new covenant. God promised to send a Messiah who would bear the iniquities of the people, producing remission of sins, and who would establish this new covenant with His people. This new covenant was to involve the writing of the law of God into the people's hearts and minds by the Holy Ghost, producing a people who would indeed be obedient to the Lord's Way:
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
(Jeremiah 31:31-34)
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
(Ezekiel 11:19-20)
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
(Ezekiel 36:24-27)
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
(Romans 8:1-9)
(to be cont.)
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04-12-2018, 01:06 AM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,945
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Re: Christian Reconstructionism:
(cont)
So then, since God knows best, and since God has revealed His Way to mankind via the Scriptures, it follows that the Scriptures provide the superior and better way for societies to function. They reveal the purpose of the church is to disciple the nations, not merely individuals:
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
(Matthew 28:18-20) Jesus Christ claims all authority both in Heaven and in earth. As a consequence of that authority, He commands His disciples to go out and "teach all nations, baptising them" etc. That is, to make all nations disciples and followers of Jesus Christ, obeying all His instructions. It is the church's function in this world to teach the nations about Christ's authority. The church's mission is not to "get folks saved and on the bus to heaven", but rather to teach all nations to obey and submit to the authority of Jesus Christ, the King.
According to Jesus, man is to live by every word of God ( Luke 4:4). The entirety of God's Word is "the law of the Lord" by which men are to live and order their lives. This is also called the Royal Law and the Perfect Law of Liberty:
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
(James 1:21-25)
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
(James 2:8-12) True liberty is only found in obedience to the law or Word of God. The law of God, the royal law, the law of liberty, is the WORD, by which man is to live.
What is "politics"? Politics is simply the carrying out of someone's rules, and establishing rules for society. All societies have laws. Genuine anarchy does not co-exist with genuine society, because anarchy is lawlessness. If people are to live together, there must be certain rules in place. Those rules are called "laws" or "law" in general. It doesn't matter what kind of society or social structure a nation may have, it will most certainly have laws and rules that govern people's lives and interactions. And it will include rules that govern how society is to be governed. That is, every society will have certain laws that pertain to government and its obligations, powers, restrictions on those powers (if any), etc.
Again, the question is "Who knows best how to govern society? God or man?" The obvious answer is God. So then, if God knows best how to govern society, then God's declarations on how society ought to be governed are better and superior to anything man might come up with. Since God has revealed those things in the Holy Bible, it follows necessarily that society is best governed in accordance with the Bible.
"Oh, but wait, people will fight over Bible interpretations and so society will not be governed perfectly! It will be a nightmare!"
I will address that in the next post.
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