Do we have to pay tithes?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Please provide scripture that says otherwise..

Good for you

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

You have no scripture for that, because they had the Tabernacle then.

I do have scripture. You have scripture too. It is in the Bible. Let me set the stage.

Where was the bulk of the law to go onto effect?

In the promised land? Correct

Now I will provide scripture.

Deut.12
[1] These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

Where shall they observe these statutes and judgments? In the land which the LORD GOD of thy fathers giveth thee to possess.

Deut.12 Verses 8 to 12

[8] Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

It seems that they were doing "every man whatsoever was right in his own eyes" before they entered the promised land.

[9] For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
[10] But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;

When ye go over Jordan, things are going to change, hallelujah.


[11] Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:
[12] And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God, ye, and your sons, and your daughters, and your menservants, and your maidservants, and the Levite that is within your gates; forasmuch as he hath no part nor inheritance with you

Tithes were; agricultural; from the promised land; to be eaten except for very specific circumstances; they were never money, not once in the entire Bible.

Tithing money violates the scripture.

[1ofthechosen]

Ok what were they talking about in Leviticus? That's Deuteronomy you are quoting which the law was read all the way to them once a year. They were told the samething in the desert. So what your saying is it was like a law voted in this year that didn't come into effect until September 1st of next year?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Can you show me a scripture that says otherwise? Because they were one people. With no homes, no marketplace, no city to speak of.

Some were cattle people. If they had all things common, they would have all been cattle men the same amount, right?

Num.32 Verses 1 to 4

[1] Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle;
[2] The children of Gad and the children of Reuben came and spake unto Moses, and to Eleazar the priest, and unto the princes of the congregation, saying,
[3] Ataroth, and Dibon, and Jazer, and Nimrah, and Heshbon, and Elealeh, and Shebam, and Nebo, and Beon,
[4] Even the country which the LORD smote before the congregation of Israel, is a land for cattle, and thy servants have cattle:

If they had all things common, why would the children of Reuben and Gad be considered to have a great multitude of cattle?

If they had all things common they would have all had a great multitude of cattle to the same extent.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Some were cattle people. If they had all things common, they would have all been cattle men the same amount, right?

Num.32 Verses 1 to 4

[1] Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle;
[2] The children of Gad and the children of Reuben came and spake unto Moses, and to Eleazar the priest, and unto the princes of the congregation, saying,
[3] Ataroth, and Dibon, and Jazer, and Nimrah, and Heshbon, and Elealeh, and Shebam, and Nebo, and Beon,
[4] Even the country which the LORD smote before the congregation of Israel, is a land for cattle, and thy servants have cattle:

If they had all things common, why would the children of Reuben and Gad be considered to have a great multitude of cattle?

If they had all things common they would have all had a great multitude of cattle to the same extent.

The increase of their cattle was great. What im saying is there was no marketplace to make money off of. So therefore no monetary plan given. Being agriculture, and cattle encompassed all increase..

[1ofthechosen]

"So tell me where was the increase of trade and money supposed to come from? When they all had everything in common? There is only two places they could get increase from, the livestock, and the agriculture.
Which meant it encompassed everything. That's like saying Deuteronomy 22:5 didn't say women can't wear pants. Pants as pants didn't exist then. There was "breeches" which Exodus 28:42 speaks of "And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach." But we see anything that's in the style of "breeches" were intended for who? Aaron's son's. Meaning they were made intended for men. So while Deuteronomy 22:5 doesn't say that women shouldn't wear pants, it does say they shouldn't wear that which pertains to a man. Samething here, because there was no trade system in the desert with outside nations considering they had no marketplace. That's why you don't see money listed. At that time this was written there was no marketplace so it wasn't applicable."

Once again...

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Ok what were they talking about in Leviticus? That's Deuteronomy you are quoting which the law was read all the way to them once a year. They were told the samething in the desert. So what your saying is it was like a law voted in this year that didn't come into effect until September 1st of next year?

No. I'm saying that the bulk of the law did not take effect for nearly forty years. The body of law (besides the ten commandments) did not go into effect until they crossed the Jordan River into the promised land.

The five books of Moses (The Pentateuch) was written before Moses died. (okay, Moses probably did not write of his own death, but otherwise they were written before the promised land was entered.) Moses did not enter the promised land. Deuteronomy was written before the promised land was entered.

[Evang.Benincasa]

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

The increase of their cattle was great. What im saying is there was no marketplace to make money off of. So therefore no monetary plan given. Being agriculture, and cattle encompassed all increase..

You are assuming.

They did have money.

They paid the half shekel offering with money, in the wilderness. The tithe was tied to the promised land. It was God's plan. It continued to be God's plan until Jesus was crucified. They did not tithe until they entered the promised land. They did give the half shekel offering (and yes, it was money) while they were in the wilderness. God never intended for tithes to be money. If He had, he would have surely said so. He is not the author of confusion.

[Evang.Benincasa]

1 Kings 5:11 and Chronicles 2:10 the builders of Solomon's temple paid in food.