Psychotropic Drugs in Religious Rituals

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Remember bloodletting and drilling holes in heads?

Those were the days...

I know. Those things were terrible. Aren't you thankful for scientific advancement in the medical sciences? No human science is perfect. But we've come a long way from bloodletting.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know. Those things were terrible. Aren't you thankful for scientific advancement in the medical sciences? No human science is perfect. But we've come a long way from bloodletting.

That's just it, medical science goes back and forth while we are being experimented on. Some things we thought to be advancements were actually step backwards as we are now finding with chemotherapy. Using THC and LSD as therapies will end up in the same dilemma years down the road. chemotherapy was first used in the 1940s.But just 78 years later we are finding that the practice is not only dangerous, but unnessercery for some patients. The use of cannabis as well as other psychotropic plants and fungi will be found to be just as bad or worse. Cannabis is the sacred oil? The Levites were instructed to ingest the oil. Hemp served purposes throughout history, yet cannabis smoking or feeling the effect of the THC is not advocated in the Bible.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No, I'm just open to new discoveries. They are making advancements in cancer treatment with cannabis. Should they find a cure for cancer, as a result of research with cannabis, will you believe the cure is a sin?



Of course, many Vietnam vets got PTSD. My dad and my uncle suffered from it. My dad never sought help. He lived drifting from shelter to shelter, and relative to relative. He was a mess.

But PTSD is by no means restricted to vets. Police, fire, medics, victims of violent crimes, serious accidents, can also suffer from it. PTSD symptoms can last for a short period, or that can last many years. It all depends on the individual and the extent of the damage to the brain.

Hey I've been to prison which is hell on earth I've got PTSD or had it. The Holy Ghost is good none of those things are advancements, if anything digression. I did all those things regularly besides for acid and it made me worse! There's no healing qualities in any of those things, they've just ran out of stuff to guinea pig people on, so now they've gone to the hard illegal stuff. Why? They can't heal nor do they have any idea how to heal a human. You know why? They are not God, and despite what any serpent tried to sell in the garden (and apparently he's slanging it wholesale today)
we can never be like God. The only way is the Holy Ghost and His presence. You know at Azusa Street the people were healed of their maladies when they received the Holy Ghost because they believed it was possible. They believed it made them brand new all the way brand new, and God honored that to many. So if Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever let me ask this, what's our problem? I venture to say it all is wrapped up in doubt, and has grown into unbelief. Unbelief can't be cured because it comes from someones own decision, a choice!

Stop studying about all this pseudo science psycho battle take it from a delivered ex dope fiend they are lying! Go and study and seek Gods face because He's the only balm in Gilead!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No, I'm just open to new discoveries. They are making advancements in cancer treatment with cannabis. Should they find a cure for cancer, as a result of research with cannabis, will you believe the cure is a sin?

Cancer cured with cannabis? No, Chris I had friends who had terminal cancer, smoked refer while they were on chemo. Still got nausea, still withered down to nothing, still died. You need to be more open to finding an Apostolic church and ministry. Those are the new discoveries we need, new discoveries in Christ through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Of course, many Vietnam vets got PTSD. My dad and my uncle suffered from it. My dad never sought help. He lived drifting from shelter to shelter, and relative to relative. He was a mess.

But PTSD is by no means restricted to vets. Police, fire, medics, victims of violent crimes, serious accidents, can also suffer from it. PTSD symptoms can last for a short period, or that can last many years. It all depends on the individual and the extent of the damage to the brain.

Did you ever know Vietnam vets to smoke refer? I did, knew a lot of Vietnam vets who smoked it, continue to smoke it. Also some who are Apostolics who would NEVER accept that their PTSD was kept in check through smoking weed. So tell me Chris, why with the plethora of Vets who smoked weed, also still had to deal with their PTSD? Jesus is the only way to deal with PTSD. Not drugs.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

This is indescribably naive bordering on the indecent. I sincerely hope you merely think this in the ignorance of unbelief, as opposed to holding some real conviction that the above comments reflect reality in the slightest.

I used to work 3rd shift at a resort hotel as a night auditor, and in the summer, the amount of intoxicated people that used to cross my desk was always high. Many times, as the person stumbled past, they would suddenly stop, look at me, and as I made eye contact with them, they, sensing the presence of the Holy One in me, would go into fits and rages under demonic pressure and influence, snap at me verbally, cuss me out, accuse me of wrong doing, and etc. And I could tell, I wasn't looking into their eyes, I was looking into the eyes of a devil.

One lady even started in on me being a Christian, belittling me, without even otherwise knowing I was one.

In Proverbs 20:1 we are told that wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging, and whoever indulges in either is not wise.

In James 3:15, we are told of a kind of wisdom that comes from the earth, not from heaven, that is sensual and devilish, that is, it summons and channels evil spirits, the kind of "wisdom" that is procured through mocking wine and raging strong drink, for example.

More people get possessed or at least oppressed by evil spirits when they are high than at any other time in their life. One sister told me how she couldn't read tarot until she hit the pipe, then she could read. But if ever she tried to read the cards without her drugs, it never worked.

But God delivered her of all that, and she's one of the most on fire Apostolics I've ever met. Because she was demonically possessed and getting high and doing tarot went hand in hand and brought an evil spirit into her life. And then she met Jesus, and having had her fill of Satan, all she ever wants now is to have her fill of the Savior.

So, this idea that chemical substances don't lead to spiritual experiences is dangerous to the max.

You bring up some good points.

First, I want to praise God with you on the deliverance of the woman you mentioned. God truly should get all honor, glory, and praise for what He has done for her.

A chemical substance, drug, herb, whatever, is only a material thing that effects the body and/or sometimes, the brain. Now, I'm not going to say that it is impossible for an individual to willingly attain a spiritual altered state of consciousness that can allow them to access spiritual realities or open themselves up to spiritual forces. We've both seen this happen. But those altered states of consciousness can be attained without drugs by many individuals too. Most "stoners" I've known just get couch-lock, laugh a lot, and fall asleep. No demons. Just a lot of stupid. They aren't seeking those spiritual states. I don't believe one can just stumble into being possessed by a demon. I believe the demon must be permitted to enter into one's own being through an act of will. Demonic oppression, on the other hand, can come from anywhere. And as the culture has shown us, any thing from food and cough syrup to more sinister things.

Then there is the reality that it is unbelievers who are primarily susceptible to demonic possession and oppression. A believer who is filled with the Spirit, prayerful, and submitted to the Lord cannot be possessed, and they have the power to rebuke any oppressive spirit. In fact, I was taught that the Lord Himself is a hedge of fire around His elect. If we are walking in Spirit-filled submission, we are protected from all outside forces... even if we get loopy after taking cough medicine, a medical cannabis treatment for seizures, or a sedative.

Fear is not of God. If taking cannabis for seizures or PTSD or some other condition, I'd not fear demon spirits. I'm a believer. I'm a saint of God who is simply taking a medication. I have a wall of fire around me.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I've not read much into research with LSD, so I can't really speak about it specifically.

I have no doubt that there will be challenges and new problems to overcome in new fields of research involving these substances. You have to understand, these substances haven't been openly studied in relation to any medical or health benefit due to their being illegal. However, as laws and funding permitting such research allows, I'm all for looking into is.

This thread is about psychotropic drugs in religious rituals. Nothing about medical cannabis or even this LSD research is related to religious ritual. It's simply science.

Chris, Votivesoul, and myself are pointing out that drugs open up spiritual doorways. I guess you were never really reading my posts? Or that you just ignore what I already posted on it so we can keep reading your own agenda motivated psychobabble? The shamans, the priestesses, witch doctors all use DRUGS to help their devotees and neophytes communion with the DEMON WORLD. Got it?

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think you bought into the Nixon era lies and false reports to justify prohibition, and now you're afraid of any changes that might take place as we strip away those lies and look more deeply into this stuff.

Admins, if you ever listen to this guy ever complain about anyone misrepresenting him or attacking him? Please, put him on the pay no mind list. Chris, in real world outside of make believe forum land, you must have no friends. Is your buddy Aaron who you go visiting graveyards together, imagernary? The above statement of your's which I quoted is what gets you in trouble. You dig it? Readers, Chris is a cry baby, and needs to be ignored when he blows snot bubbles and tears to us on how we are picking on him.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Please understand, I wouldn't dare say that someone should take anything that they explain is against their convictions.

So, you are only advocating these psychotropic treatments to sinners?

Seriously?

Originally Posted by Aquila

However, I also don't support blanket condemnation issued to those whose conditions are such that they are willing to look into the benefit of these things.

Again, go to the Hippy Druid Forum, #GratefulDeadSunDress and post there with them. The Bible isn't into using sorcery on saints or sinners.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You don't have to live with the symptoms they live with.

Do you eat a lot of bread? Is bread and cake the lionshare of your diet?

Well, stop eating it and eat meat.

You know what I say about people who are living with this that or the other thing. Get the Holy Ghost! Got it, Mr Granola Bean Sprout Flower Beam

Originally Posted by Aquila

Let them have the freedom to look into

The Bible!!!!!

Originally Posted by Aquila

new possibilities and new treatments. It can't be worse than trying to force them to endure their symptoms.

You need to get the Holy Ghost.

You have NEVER had the Holy Ghost.

That's the problem here, you need to get to an Apostolic Church and get you the Holy Ghost. Why do I say these things? Because if you ever had the Holy Ghost you would KNOW that the Holy Ghost can deliver people from PTSD, from the deepest depression, from Night Horrors. Bro, find an Apostolic Jesus Name Holy Ghost Revival and get in there and let them pray you through till your shoes and socks come out your mouth.

[Evang.Benincasa]

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Hallucinations hearing voices, are nothing to ignore in someone who are having those experiences. Interesting that most of those who hear those voices the voices aren't telling them positive things. The experimentations with LSD in therapy can go either way, individuals may have a positive trip, or an extremely bad one. But even the so called positive trip is a veneer of a coming bad one.

Yeah, I'm not to thrilled with the LSD idea. The only thing I've read is how an extract from shrooms helps terminal people who are filled with anxiety come to grips with the fact that they are dying. But the article explained that more research is necessary to understand why.

Personally, I don't lump LSD and cannabis into the same category. Cannabis isn't hallucinogenic. It's more like a sedative that resets brain chemistry through manipulation of the endocannabinoid system, thereby helping with anxiety, PTSD, pain, and things that short circuit the nervous system, etc.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yeah, I'm not to thrilled with the LSD idea. The only thing I've read is how an extract from shrooms helps terminal people who are filled with anxiety come to grips with the fact that they are dying. But the article explained that more research is necessary to understand why.

Personally, I don't lump LSD and cannabis into the same category. Cannabis isn't hallucinogenic. It's more like a sedative that resets brain chemistry through manipulation of the endocannabinoid system, thereby helping with anxiety, PTSD, pain, and things that short circuit the nervous system, etc.

it alters your view of reality.

[Esaias]

Weed just makes you not care about "problems", it doesn't solve them. Shrooms help you come to terms with dying because the psilocybin experience is a chemically induced virtual NDE so you think you are "prepared".

LSD helps people quit being drunkards because 300 micrograms of LSD will blow your mind wide open so much that booze will just seem boring as all get out in comparison.

There has been some research showing use of cannabis oil, taken in ways that do NOT produce mental effects, can have certain beneficial effects. But Aquila has gone from arguing for topical cannabis oil to shrooms and acid? Get outta here with that junk.