Saved Without A Pastor?? - Page 26

Apostolic1ness · #**251** 06-21-2018, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

Elders have the offices of evangelists, pastors and teachers, so its perfecting sensible to think that the letter was send to an elder.

Ephesians 4:11-16 King James Version (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Fully agree.

Tithesmeister · #**252** 06-21-2018, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So your saying that an angelic being would read the letter to the church?

No. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that he could deliver the message to the elders of the church. It is possible, but not likely that he would read it to them. What I'm really saying is that we don't have enough information to come to a conclusion that qualifies as safe. We should not make it up. That is what I'm saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Also could it be that a pastor is included in the elders of the church?

It absolutely could be that a pastor (or even multiple pastors) could be included among the elders of an individual church. I think we are hung up on the idea that a church can only have one pastor. I am convinced that this is NOT the case in the Bible. Do we believe that a church can only have one teacher? Why only one pastor? I don't believe the Bible supports this notion. I believe it is instead a tradition of men.

Tithesmeister · #**253** 06-21-2018, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Fully agree.

Me too.

Apostolic1ness · #**254** 06-21-2018, 06:47 PM

I would note that the scripture states in rev 2 that the "angel" and "church" in each city is singular. So I do wonder if there was not an individual that was the leader of the churches in each city. Just wondering, and if so what would be the "title" of the individual.

1ofthechosen · #**255** 06-21-2018, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

No idea.

But elder can also be a interchangeable word for Pastor or Apostle as we see in 1 Peter 5 because they all were shepherds to the flock.

1ofthechosen · #**256** 06-21-2018, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

No. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that he could deliver the message to the elders of the church. It is possible, but not likely that he would read it to them. What I'm really saying is that we don't have enough information to come to a conclusion that qualifies as safe. We should not make it up. That is what I'm saying.

It absolutely could be that a pastor (or even multiple pastors) could be included among the elders of an individual church. I think we are hung up on the idea that a church can only have one pastor. I am convinced that this is NOT the case in the Bible. Do we believe that a church can only have one teacher? Why only one pastor? I don't believe the Bible supports this notion. I believe it is instead a tradition of men.

You did say that. You kept insisting it was a. Angelic being.

Evang.Benincasa · #**257** 06-21-2018, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

But elder can also be a interchangeable word for Pastor or Apostle as we see in 1 Peter 5 because they all were shepherds to the flock.

Elder covers all five titles.

Tithesmeister · #**258** 06-21-2018, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I would note that the scripture states in rev 2 that the "angel" and "church" in each city is singular. So I do wonder if there was not an individual that was the leader of the churches in each city. Just wondering, and if so what would be the "title" of the individual.

It is okay to wonder, but it is not okay to make up doctrine. It could be, and it could Not be.

Another note: We do have a Spiritual connection here. There ARE heavenly beings involved. I'm not sure if the heavenly beings are ONLY these. There could conceivably be more, or possibly not. So far I really can't tell for certain. I just didn't want these Spirits (notice the capital s) to be overlooked.

Rev. 1:4

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

At first glance, I thought the book was from John and the seven Spirits, however upon closer study I'm pretty sure that the verse is saying grace and peace from God AND the seven Spirits, not that the book is from them.

Maybe the seven Spirits are angels? It seems they would have to be.

How do y'all interpret this?