Psychotropic Drugs in Religious Rituals

[houston]

THC is bad. Bad.

[Esaias]

Aquila's just being multifaceted again.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Aquila's just being multifaceted again.

Devil’s advocate

[houston]

Why isn’t he banned?

[houston]

Why was the cross dresser banned?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The fear of the LORD, yes. Fear for your soul, yes. Fear of marijuana or the spiritual ramifications of someone using it, legally or not, yes.

Here's why:

I know a number of former potheads, dope fiends, drug dealers, gangstas, hoods, criminals, and addicts, all of whom were either instantly delivered or abandoned their drugs and the lifestyle that goes with it, by the power of the Holy Spirit, and everyone of them can tell stories of the demonic mess they were involved in prior to, while using.

They just didn't quit because it was inconvenient or uninteresting. God sovereignly DELIVERED them, or flat-out ORDERED them to stop. Go figure that one out, and wonder why people in this thread or at AFF who have all given accounts of their former past lives and their drug use are all calling you out for being in error on this subject. It's not just some gang up on Aquila for the fun of it. You are being resisted because you are wrong.

This isn't just a doctrinal view that someone disagrees with, that we can academically discuss, disagree about, and let go. You are advocating an unrighteous lifestyle choice, and using the "60 peer reviewed studies" (have you even read them all and understood their content?) mantra to try and convince either yourself or others here that it's okay. Quote a scripture about it being okay? Can you? What does the LORD say about drug use?

I don't care about the endocannabinoid of the brain. Just because a part of our brains or our bodies can do or experience X,Y, or Z, doesn't mean that they should, or that God permits it as okay. How much of our physiological make-up is now the result of the Fall?

And guess what? All those pills the VA is going to pump you full of (do I detect fear in your post?), guess what? They also affect brain chemistry. Do you even understand the relationship that occurs at the neuronic level or the science behind how all of these, including THC, and even nicotine, affect brain chemistry, how the different elements bond and cause the highs or lows of their use?

Here's a primer: https://www.thecabinchiangmai.com/ho...ect-the-brain/

And as far as "Big Pharma" pushing out weed for a paycheck, take a look at this:

Weed, Inc: The Truth about the Pot Lobby, THC, and the Commercial Marijuana Industry:

https://www.amazon.com/Weed-Inc-Comm.../dp/B01N6WTLHN

The only reason it's being legalized in the US is for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. So, Big Pharma is increasingly going to get replaced by Big Marijuana, and what are you going to say about that?

Read up on the Netherlands some time and see how well their legalization of marijuana is going for them?

Votive, you bring up a number of excellent, and important points. I'll share my thoughts.

First, I want to say that I'm not advocating a sinful lifestyle. The "stoner culture" isn't at all what I've encountered or what is in my mind. I'm talking about the use of a medication that was abused by a specific group in our culture, that has been lifted out of that culture and is used by everyday people who have specific medical conditions whose symptoms can be treated by it.

When I speak of legalization, I'm not advocating "stoner culture" either. I'm saying that the War On Drugs has been an abysmal failure. A failure that has led to countless violations of our constitutional rights, a failure that costs more than 51 billion dollars every year, a failure that has led to the incarceration of millions of Americans, a failure that has led to countless deaths, a failure that has even played a part in military conflict... all over a plant that is no worse than a bottle of Jack Daniel's. It's a pretty well known fact that the studies used to criminalize it were tragically flawed, and some data was outright fabricated. Legalization is about putting an end to the madness, and approaching drug addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal problem. I believe I read an article on Portugal wherein they essentially legalized all drugs and set up a network of clinics that specialize in addressing drug abuse medically. The crime rate dropped and the number of reported addicts and drug related violent crime has dropped nearly 50%. They don't criminalize, arrest, and incarcerate people with addiction, they treat them. Now, is it a perfect system? No. No human system is perfect. However, it isn't the police state insanity that was evolving in their war on drugs. Even law enforcement officers have voiced how they'd rather be pursuing violent criminals than college kids smoking weed.

I'm not advocating a life style. I'm advocating an entirely different social paradigm wherein drug abuse is addressed medically and not criminally. Addicts are sick. They don't need to be locked up. They need sound medical help. And such a culture would open up a world of opportunity for churches to focus in on how to set up private rehab centers that do focus on deliverance and salvation. If we can get everyone to put their guns down and see addicts as sick people in need of help instead of a criminal record and jail time... we can truly save millions of lives.

I believe that nothing is unclean in and of itself. The spiritual oppression surrounding a thing or behavior is typically a part of the culture created by the people involved. For example, there are subcultures of sexual sin and debauchery that is just as demonized and spiritually filthy as the "stoner" subculture. That doesn't mean that sex is evil. It means that evil is being done with sex. I don't see cannabis as evil. What is evil is the abuse of it in a culture of people that don't know God. Satan will use anything to trap and oppress people. I've noticed that there is a spirit associated in "gun culture". There are spirits associated in "motorcycle culture". But guns and motorcycles aren't sinful in and of themselves. Same with cannabis. So, I agree that there are definitely spiritual concerns we must take into consideration. But I think blaming a plant and not the people involved is not actually seeing the whole picture. When I see a kid in a hard working middle class family who has suffered from over 10 seizures a day, and how the parents were at wits end trying to find relief for their child with every other medication available, and nothing was working... and after breaking down and trying cannabis, the child's seizures have ceased. I can see how lifting the medication out of the drug culture into the light of modern medicine can help millions, and remove it from the actual spiritual forces in the lives of corrupt people in the drug culture who have perverted its use.

I sincerely pray that you can see that I'm not advocating a sinful lifestyle. For those who have dealt with drug culture, I can understand the trepidation. But there's no comparison to what I'm talking about.

Yes, Big Marijuana is forming. That's a natural expectation of the free market. And if it proves more holistic and healthy than Big Pharma, it deserves to give Big Pharma a run for its money. In fact, it might create market forces that bring down the cost of many prescription medications, thereby even helping those who don't wish to use cannabis save money on their chosen medications. Competition is a good thing.

Lastly, something should be said about so many who are suffering from such terrible symptoms that they'd rather risk getting arrested than continue living in the Hell on Earth that they are currently in. Without elaborating and sounding extra sappy with examples of how PTSD has destroyed lives, marriages, families, and how epilepsy, Parkinson's, cancer, etc. have all presented such horrible symptoms to live with, the alternative... the legalization of cannabis... seems to be a matter of common sense.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Aquila's just being multifaceted again.

There are many angles to this. I can see where EB and Votive are coming from. But I can also see where so many who have benefitted from cannabis are coming from. It really is a multifaceted issue.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The fear of the LORD, yes. Fear for your soul, yes. Fear of marijuana or the spiritual ramifications of someone using it, legally or not, yes.

Here's why:

I know a number of former potheads, dope fiends, drug dealers, gangstas, hoods, criminals, and addicts, all of whom were either instantly delivered or abandoned their drugs and the lifestyle that goes with it, by the power of the Holy Spirit, and everyone of them can tell stories of the demonic mess they were involved in prior to, while using.

They just didn't quit because it was inconvenient or uninteresting. God sovereignly DELIVERED them, or flat-out ORDERED them to stop. Go figure that one out, and wonder why people in this thread or at AFF who have all given accounts of their former past lives and their drug use are all calling you out for being in error on this subject. It's not just some gang up on Aquila for the fun of it. You are being resisted because you are wrong.

This isn't just a doctrinal view that someone disagrees with, that we can academically discuss, disagree about, and let go. You are advocating an unrighteous lifestyle choice, and using the "60 peer reviewed studies" (have you even read them all and understood their content?) mantra to try and convince either yourself or others here that it's okay. Quote a scripture about it being okay? Can you? What does the LORD say about drug use?

I don't care about the endocannabinoid of the brain. Just because a part of our brains or our bodies can do or experience X,Y, or Z, doesn't mean that they should, or that God permits it as okay. How much of our physiological make-up is now the result of the Fall?

And guess what? All those pills the VA is going to pump you full of (do I detect fear in your post?), guess what? They also affect brain chemistry. Do you even understand the relationship that occurs at the neuronic level or the science behind how all of these, including THC, and even nicotine, affect brain chemistry, how the different elements bond and cause the highs or lows of their use?

Here's a primer: https://www.thecabinchiangmai.com/ho...ect-the-brain/

And as far as "Big Pharma" pushing out weed for a paycheck, take a look at this:

Weed, Inc: The Truth about the Pot Lobby, THC, and the Commercial Marijuana Industry:

https://www.amazon.com/Weed-Inc-Comm.../dp/B01N6WTLHN

The only reason it's being legalized in the US is for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. So, Big Pharma is increasingly going to get replaced by Big Marijuana, and what are you going to say about that?

Read up on the Netherlands some time and see how well their legalization of marijuana is going for them?

Chris, was the kid in highschool smoking oregano pin joints. No, he posted that he did something when he was in his 30s, never knew anyone who was a burn out. Therefore Chris doesn't have a clue to the DAMAGE physical or SPIRITUAL. Maybe he is getting a kickback for posting his by some Medical Marijuana group? I think Apostolic1Ness got it pretty close that Chris just wants to smoke dubes so he is looking for some "Apostolic" thumbs up? But I believe that Chris like to burn ants under the magnifying glass. He likes to throw out garbage that is as he says "outside the box" to watch the kiddies play. That is the extent of his interaction here. Blow up standards, blow up leadership, go to the political section and play the flaming liberal. Talk about how he and his live in girlfriend get naked and eat breakfast, how people who fly the flag of Dixie are traitors. All to do what? To get a bda reaction from those he left behind long ago. His latest threatening suicide was absolutely his most stupid stunt. He has zero cred therefore his best case scenario is to go find a PASTOR.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

There are many angles to this. I can see where EB and Votive are coming from. But I can also see where so many who have benefitted from cannabis are coming from. It really is a multifaceted issue.

You can't see where we are coming from.

You have no knowledge of where we are coming from. Cannabis has helped who? My lands, you speak of it a it is some NEW miracle drug? Chris, people have been smoking it forever and the results are bare minimum. It is all about the money.

If you can't see that, then you are a Liberal Zombie.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by houston

Why isn’t he banned?

Because I'm one of the few more moderate voices that tries to be logical, and is truly remorseful when conversations get too heated. And, agree with me or not, I've had one thing said to me over and over... I made people think. And in most cases, that's enough for me. I think we do ourselves a disservice if we serve to only be an echo chamber echoing the same tired old ideas, perspectives, and understandings that we've held for generations. As times change, methods, manners, styles, and approaches can change. Today, denying cannabis to a family with a child having 10 or more seizures, with what now know about the plant's capabilities, is imposing as great a cruelty and evil upon that family as any act of violence that could be perpetrated against them other than murder itself.

Most of my detractors have argued that I'm advocating for a stoner lifestyle. I don't. I'm looking at this from a position that acknowledges the medicinal benefits, the context of the dangers presented, and a perspective that is primarily libertarian.

I see in Scripture God forbidding specific meats, specific acts, specific practices, and specific lifestyles. But nowhere do I see God forbidding consumption of a single plant. God created all plant life. And when He did, He said that it was "good" (meaning beneficial to man). And from the most ancient of times, plants have proven to be beneficial in the way of diet, herbal remedies, medications, and textiles. I don't see any inherent sinfulness in any plant or substance. I see the sinfulness being in the hearts of men women who choose to abuse a given substance. Those who chose to use these substances in pagan rituals are the one's guilty of evil. There is no inherent evil in a leaf.